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[0:00] We are continuing to deal with some of the questions that you have submitted, and there are a number that yet will occupy our time, so we're not in any hurry. We don't have any schedule to maintain, and my main concern is that, like I've said before, is that we will scratch where people itch, and the questions that you submit are an indication that that's something that you itch about or wonder about or would like some enlightenment on, so we'll do what we can to provide it, and we're also, I'm very, very big on what I call connecting the dots, because when you are able to connect the dots between events, you get a picture, and you can understand something, so your perspective is improved or changed or whatever, and it is all about understanding, and we try to emphasize the fact that in this book called the Bible, this supernatural book, gift from God for all humanity, everything in it is intimately connected to everything in it.

[1:10] It makes a beautiful composite whole, and the more you are able to understand the connections, the history involved, and the future involved, the greater will be your sense of appreciation and understanding and obedience. Nothing aids obedience more than understanding what and who you are being obedient to. That's a very big factor, and we are delighted to be together and have this time to share, and I want to, and I know I say this, I don't always do it though, I have some time for Q&A, and I get carried away with the text, and I forget all about the Q&A, so I want to remind you, no one will think you are rude if you just stick up your hand, weigh your hand, and I'll stop right there, and we'll deal with whatever the question is, so don't hesitate to do that. Feel free to do it, because what we're looking for is information that we can take to the bank, something that you can build your lives on, and in connection with that, let's turn in our Bibles, if you will, please, to very familiar passage in John's Gospel chapter 3, and the question that somebody submitted is, did Nicodemus, when he was born again, get eternal life or entry into the kingdom? And that is a very provocative and insightful question that indicates somebody's been doing some sinking, so if you will open your Bibles to that portion, please, we will address it, and at least we'll get as far as we can, as the time allows. There are a lot of implications and a lot of things involved here that perhaps we can bring to light and allow you to connect a few more dots, because that's what this is all about.

[3:14] I do not have, in my particular Bible, this New American Standard, a red-letter version. Many of you do have, and I don't want to be overly critical of it, except to say that red-letter Bibles, I'm confident, were brought into being for the sole purpose of emphasizing the words of the Lord Jesus Christ. Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with that, and the people who did the red-lettering, and I'm not sure when that started, but I know it was sometime in the 20th century, they wanted to emphasize the words of Jesus, because nobody in the whole Bible is more important than Jesus, and with that, there's no disagreement. But at the same time, while it does set apart the words of Christ in red, there is also a downside to that. To almost every improvement, there's an upside and a downside. And the downside is, it has an unintended tendency to minimize the value or the level of inspiration of the words that are not in red letters.

[4:33] And that's unfortunate, because, fellas, we need to understand fully that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God, not just the words of Jesus. And while it is true, Christ is certainly the paramount individual in all of the Bible, yet all of the Bible is equally inspired. No part of the Bible is more the Word of God than another part. It is all equally inspired simply because of the one who inspired it. Now, it is certainly true to say there are many parts of the Bible that are more inspiring to read.

[5:20] I'm a lot more inspired to read some of the things that Paul wrote and some of the things that the psalmist wrote in the Psalms and the Old Testament. I'm a lot more inspired to read that than I am to read the book of Leviticus. And if you're looking for a help me go to sleep pill at night, just turn on the lamp and start reading Leviticus and you'll be out within a couple of minutes. Because that's just, you know, it's not inspiring. But I'll tell you what, the chapter and verse in Leviticus is just as much the Word of God as is John 3.16. So keep that in mind. What, Joe? Okay. You mentioned the red letter edition and what was wrong with it. You mentioned one of the things. There's at least two things that's wrong with it. Okay. One is that we lack the, looking at the importance of the black print. But we also should realize that the red print, what Jesus said, was not all intended for you and me. It was only intended for the Jews, His chosen people. So a lot of times Christians, we take some of the things that

[6:30] Jesus said as being for us and to us. It must be, you know, He's the most important person in the Bible, but it's not for you and me. So that was another error that you could get from the red letter edition.

[6:44] I appreciate that, Joe. Keep in mind, it's a very simple thing by way of the prepositions, okay? Everything in the Bible is for us. Not everything in the Bible is to us. You've got to understand who is being addressed, who is involved. And you cannot take something personally that was written for somebody else to somebody else. So that's a common mistake that a lot of people make because they like to think, well, there's a little ditty that goes like this. Every promise in the Bible is mine, every word, every line. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. Every promise in the Bible is for you and for your understanding and appreciation, but not necessarily to you. And if you insist on trying to apply that and make that come true, some people say, well, all you have to do is have enough faith. If you have enough faith, God will do it. Well, okay. If you're, what? If you're, if you're a hundred and your wife is 99 and you've never had a baby, all you have to do is claim the promise that God gave to Abraham and Sarah and appropriate it and have enough faith. And sure enough, your wife's going to get pregnant too.

[8:14] Nevermind. She's 99 years old. That's how absurd this thing can be. But, uh, some people just insist on having it that way. But anyway, let's look at this text here. Uh, I've already pointed out one slight thing to you that I want to mention again in John three. And that is while we're talking about the disadvantage of red letters, let me make the point again that I made earlier about, about the unfortunate chapter divisions and verse divisions that are in the Bible, because we've got another one here. And you've got to remember fellows that prior to, prior to the 1500s, and we're only talking 500 years prior to the 1500s, there were no chapter divisions in the Bible. It was just the whole thing.

[9:06] Just verse after, well, there weren't, there weren't any verses. It was just writing one, one after another, one page after another on the scrolls and nothing was given a verse number. Nothing was given a chapter number. So when they did do that, it was a great service to us because it put an address to the text and they allowed us to find things. But some of them are very unfortunate. And here's another example, as I've already pointed out. And in chapter two of John's gospel, we read that, uh, Jesus on his part was not entrusting himself to them. Why not? Because he knew all men, he knew, because he knew all men, he knew men, prepare yourself for this guys, men cannot be trusted. Did you get that?

[10:00] Now the tendency is for us to think, well, that may be true of other men, but it isn't true of me. Oh, yes, it is. Yes, it is. Fellas, we are all flawed beings. We are all capable of mistrust and distrust.

[10:21] It's part of our DNA. That's just the way it is. Deal with it. And when you do deal with it, you're working out of wisdom instead of out of ignorance. The scriptures make it very clear that the heart is deceitful, desperately wicked above all things. Who can know it? And this means sometimes, guys, let's admit it, sometimes we don't even understand ourselves or our own motives. Have you ever, have you ever silently said to yourself what you wouldn't say to somebody else? What in the world was I thinking?

[11:01] Why did I do that? Why did I say that? That's not within my rule of standards. Why did I say that? Why did I do that? It's because you're a member of the human race. That's why. And we're capable of this great fickleness that we like to think everybody else has, but I'm not branded with that. Well, then you're also dealing with self-delusion. Okay. Anyway, Jesus on his part was not entrusting himself to them. The reason he wasn't was because he knew all men and because he did not need anyone to bear witness concerning man for he himself knew what was in man. That means Jesus knows us through and through better than we know ourselves. He knows how we think. He knows what we think. He knows why we think. He understands us fully. And that's why, with good reason, he doesn't entrust himself to us like the text is saying, for he himself knew what was in man. Now we're going to get an illustration of that. The next verse, apart from the chapter division, is going to tell us and give us an example of how it is that Jesus knows what's in man, how he's thinking, what he's thinking, when he's thinking, and all the rest of it. Now, here's the example. It's almost as if John is saying, for he himself knew what was in man. And let me give you an illustration of that. There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.

[12:33] This man came to him by night and said to him, Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher, for no one can do these signs or miracles that you do unless God is with him. Jesus answered and said to him, well, I appreciate your insight, Nicodemus. Thank you very much for the compliment.

[12:54] No, he didn't say that. He cut right to the chase. He knew exactly why Nicodemus had come, even though Nicodemus hadn't said it. He comes in with flattering words. We know you're a teacher from God. No one could do. Well, that's all true. And I don't fault Nicodemus for saying it, but he didn't come there at night to pay Jesus a compliment. He came there at night looking for information. And Jesus knew that. And he says in verse three, he answered and said to him, truly, truly, this is an expression that Jesus uses a number of times in the, in the original language. It's amen. Amen. And it means amen literally means so be it. It is an additional confirmation to what was said. So be it, so be it. Or truly, truly, sometimes it is rendered.

[13:54] I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. I know, well, I guess all, yeah, we're, we're all seniors of one description or another. All of you are old enough to remember Jimmy Carter. And when he arrived on the scene back in the 19, what was it, 1960s, late 1960s, as a peanut farmer in Plains, Georgia, and announced that he was running for president, running for the nomination for the Democratic Party, and that he was a born again Christian.

[14:38] And that, I think, was the first time I had ever seen that term in the newspaper print. People were saying, what, what is this? Who is this guy? He's a peanut farmer and what's the born again? So regardless of what you think of the man or his politics, he was a believer in Jesus Christ, and he did kind of awaken our culture to a term that had pretty much gone underground for a long time, born again. And it even got people talking about it, born again. What, what is this stuff, born again? What's, what's that mean anyway? And you know something? We do not know how many people ultimately, eventually came to faith because of that term, born again, because it caused people to start looking into it. Their curiosity was aroused, and fellas, nobody gets converted. Nobody comes to faith in Christ without doing some thinking, some cogitating, some comparing, some analyzing. And then ultimately, the light comes on, and you connect the dots, and you see what it means to be born again.

[15:55] So we're looking at that right now. Jesus said, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Right there is where we need to park for just a moment because it's very, very important.

[16:11] It is probably greater percentage of the Christian public would translate this to mean, unless one is born again, he cannot go to heaven. And that this is what the text is saying.

[16:33] Well, this is not what the text is saying. But at the same time, one does have to be born again in order to go to heaven, but you can't use this text to prove it. Because when Jesus says the kingdom of God, he is not talking about going to heaven as we are when we talk about being born again, dying in the body, and the spirit leaves and goes to heaven. That's not involved here.

[16:59] But the typical thing is to read that into it. What is this all about? This is all about the kingdom. The kingdom. The kingdom. The kingdom. And I know I make a big deal of the kingdom, and that might even turn some people off because they think, you're making too much of the kingdom.

[17:17] Fellas, if you understand the concept of the kingdom, you will see it is, well, I would call it the third most important concept and thing in the Bible.

[17:34] Third. What's first? First is creation. Wouldn't be anything, anyone, without creation. And what's the last thing? And by the way, creation is found in the first two chapters of Genesis.

[17:54] And the last thing, which is almost, which is, I would call the second most important thing, is the conclusion.

[18:06] That's the eternal state. The eternal state is found in Revelation 20, 21. Matter of fact, creation is found in the first two chapters of Genesis.

[18:21] And the eternal state is found in the last two chapters of Revelation. I somehow think that's not a coincidence. What is in between?

[18:34] That's the third thing. That's the kingdom of heaven come to earth. Because with creation, we see the fall and the failure of humanity, the first creation.

[18:47] Everything comes to ruination. And fellas, talk about connecting the dots. If you can understand and grasp the idea that from Genesis chapter 3, where the fall occurs, where everything comes crashing down, where death is introduced, disobedience, the Satan, the conflict, and all the rest, that surfaces in Genesis 3.

[19:14] And in Revelation 20. And in Revelation 20. That is all put aside. And the new eternal state is ushered in.

[19:27] And everything in between. And everything in between. It's where we're at right now. Part of which is the kingdom of heaven that is now being held in postponement.

[19:41] This is not the kingdom of heaven. This is not the kingdom of heaven. But this is the time frame in between the beginning and the end. And part of that which is in the middle is what we call the body of Christ, the Christian church.

[19:57] That is introduced right out of the blue. Because it isn't even found at all in the Old Testament. It's just not there. And it surfaces all of a sudden in connection with raising up of the Apostle Paul.

[20:13] And he's given a new message. A message that just hit like a thunderclap. Because the conclusion of it was, hey, you know the difference that has always existed between the Jew and the Gentile?

[20:31] It's gone. There's no distinction anymore. There is one body. They are all equally guilty. God has concluded all in unbelief that he may have faith for all.

[20:45] That is just absolutely amazing. And it is a dynamic thing that is seldom understood, unfortunately. But what, Joe? Yes. And in the Bible, it's told, you know it by two ways.

[20:58] One, in the prophecy in the Old Testament, there is no mention of the body of Christ, the church, you and me. Christ, God turning to us like he did through Paul.

[21:08] There is no mention of it. And if you read in Paul's letters in the New Testament, there are seven times he says it was a secret, a mystery. He calls it a mystery.

[21:19] But a mystery is a secret. And it's told us in the New Testament that this is, like Marge says, totally out of the blue. Never surprised. It's a secret. But it's a big gap there in the Old Testament that is not explained there at all.

[21:35] And you get that in Paul's letters. It was a secret. And the prophecies do not say anything about it so you know it was a secret. Okay. That's okay. Thank you, Joe. Some things just won't wait.

[21:46] I appreciate that. If you want a really great commentary on what Joe just said, read Ephesians chapter 3. It is a blockbuster chapter.

[21:58] It explains what so much of this is all about. Ephesians chapter. Well, let's get on here. We're in John. And Nicodemus asked a very logical question.

[22:11] Jesus said, one must be born again. And Nicodemus is scratching his head and saying, what? What is he talking about born again? What is this? How can a man be born when he is old?

[22:23] He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he? Jesus answered, truly, truly. This is the same truly, truly as in verse 3.

[22:34] Amen. Amen. I say to you, unless one is born of water and the spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Now, it is not unusual.

[22:46] In fact, it's very common for our Christian friends, particularly the Church of Christ group and many of the Baptists to say, this is a clear cut picture and demonstration of water baptism.

[23:01] And Jesus is saying, you have to be born of water as in baptism. But if you try to take into consideration the time, the culture, the message, the kingdom message, and all that goes with it, the baptism thing, which is the application of water and a ceremonial purification and cleansing, is an entirely different matter.

[23:25] What Jesus is talking about here is the physical birth. Now, what I'm giving you is a Wiseman opinion. You can take it or leave it. I'm not offended if you disagree.

[23:36] But I think what he is talking about is he is giving a description of the physical, normal birth by which all of us got into this world.

[23:49] And I think we can all identify, at least if you talk to the fairer sex about this, they'll clue you in, I'm sure, that when the time comes for that baby to be born that is enclosed in this amniotic fluid sack that protects the baby and nurtures the baby during this time of nine months, because the water in which that baby is confined in that sack, that amniotic fluid bursts.

[24:24] In fact, there will not be a baby if it doesn't, because when that water sack bursts, it provides an exit for the baby to come forth from the womb because it is no longer enclosed by that, which is also not only protection, but it is a barrier as well to everything on the outside.

[24:49] And when that water breaks, the baby comes forth and is born. That's referred to as a water birth. And nobody gets into this world without, I don't know that much about obstetrics, but even in a cesarean section, when the baby is not delivered vaginally, as we would call with a natural kind of birth, but a cesarean section, even then, of course, that fluid bag has to be punctured for the doctor to get the baby out.

[25:20] So that's the birth of water, and that's what Jesus is talking about, and that's what Nicodemus is asking about. And when Jesus said, which is born of the water, that's the physical birth. Nicodemus is confusing that, and he's saying, how can that be born again?

[25:36] And then he says, and by the way, some translations render that, unless one is born from above, from above. Well, I would not dispute that, because that is where the new birth is going to arrive from.

[25:51] It is information that is provided by God to the individual so that they can make a decision, and it is purely spiritual.

[26:03] It's immaterial. Nobody has ever seen the new birth actually take place, because it is not physical, but that doesn't mean it isn't real.

[26:15] So let us go on here, if we may. And then he says, unless one is born of water and the spirit, both of these are essential. There has to be not only a physical birth by which you get into this world, but there has to be a spiritual birth by which you enter the kingdom of God.

[26:36] That's what he's talking about. He's making a contrast here, and then he kind of capsulizes it by saying, because that which is born of the flesh is flesh. That which is born of the spirit is spirit.

[26:48] Don. I've got to say this right. Would this be an area which says, I was baptized, I have the spirit, therefore I am in the kingdom of God now, right now, because I have the spirit?

[27:04] Is that what some of the people, I've had somebody say that in a way. Well, I can understand people thinking that, and I guess I would dispute the correctness of what they're saying.

[27:17] I understand where they're coming from, and I would not dispute if they have placed their faith and trust in Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. They have been transferred from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of his dear Son, and they are believers.

[27:33] I would not dispute that. But sometimes the semantics gets in the way, and we can see how that can happen here too. Okay? Yeah. Let's go on. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.

[27:49] Do not marvel that I said to you, you must be born again. The wind blows where it wishes. Now, he's giving an illustration here that is designed to demonstrate the, I guess we would say the invisible nature of the spirit.

[28:12] It is immaterial. Nobody's ever seen it. And he's likening it to the wind because he's just using that as an illustration with which we can identify. The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going.

[28:28] So is everyone who is born of the spirit. Has anybody ever said, there's the wind, I see it. No, you don't see the wind. All you do is see what the wind does, and the wind blows this way and that way, but you don't actually see the wind because the wind is air in motion.

[28:50] You can see the effect that it has upon something, but you don't see the wind. And that's the point that is being made here. The spirit has effect on things. Right. The wind blows where it wishes, you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it is going.

[29:07] So is everyone who is born of the spirit. And here he's talking about entering or going into the kingdom of God, sometimes called the kingdom of heaven.

[29:20] They are synonymous. And fellas, here is a statement that I hope you never forget because this is so very, very important. Virtually every time the Bible uses the phrase kingdom of heaven, kingdom of God, it is not talking about heaven where God is, like the third heaven.

[29:42] It is not talking about absent from the body, present with the Lord in heaven. It's not what this is about. What this is about is an earthly scene. The kingdom of heaven is not in heaven.

[29:57] It is on earth. It is heaven's kingdom, heaven's rule, heaven's reign, come to earth and established here so that the will of God will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

[30:16] And if you think it is now, you're looking at a different earth than I am. What, Joe? It all goes back to his promise to Abraham.

[30:28] When God took Abraham, he promised him he would be over a kingdom, that the Jews, they would be over a kingdom and rule. And so God is fulfilling his promise when that kingdom comes.

[30:43] Well, as Martha said, that kingdom has not come yet it will come. We're not in it now. Nothing to do with it. Right. But it's fulfilling his promise. And Jesus says that in these gospel things too that that's what he came to do.

[30:58] He came to set up this kingdom to fulfill the promise that God made to Abraham. And all the way it would happen was that the people as a nation had accepted him as Christ, it would have come in then.

[31:12] But they didn't accept him. So it didn't come in then. Marv, I'm sorry. Go ahead. That's okay. It's okay. Some things just won't wait. I would rather Joe speak than I would to have his brain explode right here.

[31:27] That's what's up. That's what happens. Okay. Now, I want you to turn if you would please to another passage that has come up one of the questions that you've raised.

[31:40] And that's in Luke chapter 16. And while you're turning there I would just preface it by saying I sure wish I had more light on this subject than what I do have. Actually, I could say that about everything in the scriptures.

[31:53] But such as I have give I unto you. And you can assess it for whatever you think it's worth. It has to do with the story of the rich man and Lazarus.

[32:03] And right off the bat, guys excuse me I've got a morning frog in my voice here. Right off the bat there is a controversy that surrounds this passage of scripture.

[32:15] And the controversy has to do with whether this is a true actual story that Jesus is recounting or whether it is a parable.

[32:29] And what is in favor of it being a parable is it is couched smack dab in the middle of a bunch of parables.

[32:40] So it is kind of difficult from the standpoint of logic to just extract it from all of its surroundings before and after that are parables and say but this isn't a parable.

[32:54] Yet at the same time I am not prepared to say yes it definitely is a parable. All I can say is the jury is still out. It may be a parable.

[33:05] It may be very truly it may be an actual account that Jesus is telling. We don't know which it is.

[33:17] So because we cannot be absolutely certain you just kind of have to leave it in limbo. So I will give you some possibilities and we'll get into it because it's very demanding and it is very enlightening.

[33:30] So in verse 19 he says there was a certain rich man some translations render it Dives his name was Dives D-I-V-E-S and some render it well it was Lazarus and by the way that's another that's another reason to believe that there is maybe a possibility a good possibility that this is not a parable because in no other in no parable in none of the parables is anyone ever mentioned with a personal name.

[34:07] Sometimes it's called a certain man or a woman or something but they never give it a name but yet in this case a name a personal name Abraham is given and a name Lazarus is given so if this is if this is a parable it's the only parable about of all the parables where a personal name is used so that's something else that needs to be taken into consideration.

[34:33] even if it's a parable even if it's a parable in the Bible it still gives us a truth in it it still gives us the same truth as if it actually happened exactly so that's okay too even if you look at it as a parable it doesn't matter that's a good point I appreciate you making that point and the point is simply that even if it is a parable that doesn't mean it isn't true it is a true it is an account of that which is true so we read that this certain rich man was habitually dressed in purple and fine linen gaily living in splendor every day and a certain poor man named Lazarus now this Lazarus is not to be confused with the Lazarus who is the brother of Mary and Martha that Jesus brings back from the dead this is a different Lazarus is a fairly common name so this is a different Lazarus that he's talking about he was laid at his gate covered with sores and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table besides even the dogs were coming and licking his sores now it came about that the poor man died and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom now there's the injection of another personal name very uncommon with parables and the rich man also died and was buried and in

[36:08] Hades this is not hell this is Hades and he is saying that in Hades he lifted up his eyes being in torment where is this place Hades best information that we have is that it is somewhere in the bowels of the earth it is referred to Hades is commonly referred to as the place of the dead or of the departed dead sometimes it is rendered the grave and you can see the connection between the grave and the place of the departed dead so many scholars are of the opinion that this is a temporary place that is constructed and it receives all of the spirits all of the spirits of individuals who died prior to the death burial and resurrection of Christ the souls the souls died and well the soul is the totality of the body but the soul at death at death your soul is disrupted your soul is broken up and it is broken up into two parts one is physical that's the body goes to the grave the crematory wherever it's going and the other is the spirit which is immaterial in the case of a believer goes to be with the Lord so where does someone go who is not a believer they go to

[37:59] Hades the body goes to the grave or buried at sea or cremated but the soul or the spirit goes to Hades well this is confusing because the spirit is immaterial yet the text here talks about that which receives pain and anguish and how can you receive pain and anguish and regrets if you do not have a physical body if you are only spirit what kind of what kind of feeling would a non-physical being have I don't know I don't know so keep that in mind let's go on move on through the text longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man's table besides even the dogs were coming and licking his sores now if he's in

[39:02] Hades and he is in spirit form without a body why is he longing for food why is he longing for crumbs you see the point you see the question the issue here this is still unresolved and you'll have opportunity to provide any insight you may have and I would appreciate it but let's move on I can't get I can't stop here it came about that the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom now if you look back if you look back to the time of your childhood was there any place in the whole wide world where you as a one or two year old child had suffered some kind of what your mother calls a boo-boo and you come to her for comfort and help and you're crying and you hold out your wounded finger and your mother picks you up and she holds you and she presses you to her bosom there is no place in the world that can compare with that that is the epitome of comfort and solace is to be in mama's bosom that's the place of nourishment of care of provision of understanding of everything is wrapped up in that bosom and that's the kind of picture that is transferred here to Abraham father Abraham for the

[40:53] Abraham who is the father of all the Jews to take a fellow Jew and embrace them and hold them to his bosom is just about as close to heaven on earth as you're going to get if you are a Jew that's the picture that is being painted here with that kind of intention and the poor man died and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom and the rich man also died and in Hades he lifted up his eyes being in torment now remember he doesn't have a body the body was left in the grave or wherever so what is it that is being tormented he has an immaterial spirit and he saw Abraham far away well even though he doesn't have a body he could see and he could feel what is that

[41:59] I wish I knew he cried out and said father Abraham have mercy on me and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue does he have a tongue does the spirit have a tongue we know his body had a tongue but it isn't there is this somehow is this somehow an equivalent feeling or emotion that spirit is able to experience even though it has no physicality I don't know I don't know but I will say this I want to remind you surely we are fearfully and wonderfully made fellas there is so much about your physical body that you do not understand nor does the most brilliant

[43:13] MD in the world understand these physical bodies of ours are beyond human comprehension we have no idea how incredibly marvelous these bodies are if we had a better idea we would probably take better care of them than we do but you you are let me put it this way you are the most amazing thing on planet earth walking around on two legs there is nothing there is nothing on the planet to compare with you and your body you are fearfully and wonderfully made you are God's masterpiece this physical body is just mind bending that's true and if that's true of our physical being that we tend to know more of than anybody else

[44:13] I know more about this body than you do and you know more about your body than I do but what about the spirit what about that immaterial part of our being that's the one that we neglect you know why we neglect it because it doesn't have physicality we're we're so plugged into this physical world that it's we tend to think it's everything it's everything and you know what the atheist is counting on it being everything because when this is over it's over and that's it no death no heaven no hell no hereafter no existence kaput everything's gone if you don't have a spirit that's all you've got see that's where they are so where are we with this I wish I had better answers anyway let's read on Abraham said child remember during your life you received your good things and

[45:15] Lazarus likewise bad things but now he is being comforted here and you are in agony and besides all this between us and you there is a great chasm fixed that's a great divide call it if you will a great trench a great split that is so deep and so wide that there's no way one can go from one side to the other you can forget about jumping it that's impossible it's just not going to happen there is a distinct division here that is provided for these two individuals after death now I want to insert something here that is very very important you have got to interpret this and understand this in light of the fact that this is all taking place prior to the death burial and resurrection of

[46:26] Christ guys that makes all the difference in the world this is on the other side of the cross this is before Jesus is ever arrested and crucified and died and raised again from the dead you can't put this on this side of the cross it doesn't belong there well let me correct myself again part of it belongs there part of it doesn't but as a result as a result of the death burial and resurrection of Christ this compartment that is called paradise is going to be vacated when Jesus was on the cross one of the thieves next to him who actually believed in him said Lord remember me when you come into your kingdom hey fellas that thief on the cross had a lot better picture and understanding of the kingdom than people do today that thief on the cross knew exactly what the kingdom meant and

[47:29] Jesus told him verily verily say unto you today you will be with me in paradise paradise where is that that's right here in luke 16 this is the luke 16 paradise part prior to the cross and let me just insert this because I don't want to hold it over until next week but we'll see how it develops and the important thing to remember is after the death burial and resurrection of Christ he did descend into Hades and Hades in the compartment of paradise where Abraham was Jesus emptied it and he took those who were there with him to glory and that's where they remain and those who are in the other part of luke 16 remain there they are yet to this day in

[48:39] Hades that is not hell that is Hades and when we get to it time will not permit it now but when we get to it we will see in revelation that death and Hades will deliver up the dead that are in them and that's when they will stand at the great white throne judgment these are all unbelievers believers have been emptied out of paradise and taken to heaven those who were unbelievers remain and they are there to this day in Hades not hell in Hades and the reason they are there is because they are awaiting their day in court and when death and Hades give up the dead which are in them then you read and I saw a great white throne and everyone is going to be emptied from

[49:39] Hades and stand before their maker at the great white throne for judgment there will not be any believers there these are all unbelievers believers are evaluated at the judgment throne of Christ in 1st Corinthians 3 that is the bema seat and that is not for punishment it is for reward determination of rewards granted or rewards withheld those are two entirely different things I wish we had more time for is there a quick question or comment anybody just one comment those unbelievers that are in Hades now that judgment on the throne will occur after the thousand years of Christ reign on earth that kingdom that thousand year reign of kingdom will occur at the end of that that they're going to have that judgment that you're talking about thank you Joe I appreciate you clarifying that Roger do you have something I don't know

[50:42] I guess anything is possible I just don't know what capabilities a non physical being could experience I just don't know I I'm already in over my head there is a lot about the body we don't understand and fellas if there is a lot about the body that is physical that we don't understand how much do you think there is about the spirit which is non physical that we don't understand really we're pretty dumb when it comes right down to I mean the thing that we think that we would know the most about we may know the least and I'm confident of this when we when we find out the real scoop and get the get the full picture the Bible says and we shall know even as we are known there's going to be a whole lot of dots connected then a lot of light bulbs come on are going to be a whole lot of people saying oh so that's how so that's why well of course why didn't

[51:45]  I see that going to be all kinds of surprises and it's going to well it's going to be as good as God can make it how good is that hey guys thanks for being here enjoy your breakfast we'll continue this theme with paradise and Hades next week