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[0:00] It's going to be a little bit of a handicap this morning from the standpoint of our handouts because I always am saddened by the fact that when we have handouts like this, the people who are listening to the content online and with the CDs, etc., don't have the advantage of the visuals that we have this morning, but I guess you can't have everything, so we'll just have to leave it at that.

[0:33] Also, I want to advise you that these handouts, if you will look carefully on them, I think with most of them you will see a date, like, for instance, the one that stated a look at the big picture.

[0:58] At the bottom, you'll see it's dated May, June 2007. Well, why in the world are we handing out something that is 15 years old?

[1:12] And the answer is because the truth that is on it is a whole lot older than that. These are handouts that I have collected during my 50 years of ministry at Grace Bible Church, and I call them, and I've got a small stack of them, I call them my forever keepers.

[1:33] And if you are smart, you will not only read this, but you will read it and keep it forever. By that I mean it would be appropriate to put it in your will and pass it on to the next generation.

[1:50] This content is that important, and it is not an exaggeration, it is that important, all of it. And all three of these sheets are being distributed now because of the season of the year.

[2:06] So, excuse me. So we'll just interrupt the thing that we have been doing up until now because of it being in anticipation of Christmas that's coming up.

[2:20] We'll just have a little detour. And then next week, the Lord willing, we will return to dealing with the questions that you have submitted. And we'll do our best to address those.

[2:31] So, as I was just seated here, the question was raised. The statement was made that they were always aware that Jesus was the Son of God.

[2:48] But there is a question as to whether He is God. And I can understand that question because the only basis for comparison that we have is on the human level.

[3:03] And we know that there is, in order for there to be a son, or for that matter, in order for there to be a daughter, there has to be a father somewhere.

[3:20] And we just understandably transfer that concept to deity. And we expect somehow that it works the same way. But it doesn't.

[3:32] And that's our major fallacy. That which separates deity from humanity is incalculable. That doesn't keep us from trying to apply human terms and understanding to the deity.

[3:53] Because we think that it fits that way. But it doesn't. You need to understand that Jesus, as the Son of God, is not the Son of God in the same way that your son is the Son of you.

[4:09] Jesus was not the product of His Father in heaven somehow cohabiting with whom?

[4:20] With some female god somewhere? And produced a son? And they named Him Jesus? That's just so much malarkey. That's what you find with the fantasy and the gods that the Romans had and the gods that the Greeks had and so on.

[4:40] Don't put the Lord of heaven in that category. He is a category. And He dwells there alone. The Father and the Son and the Spirit are all equally.

[4:56] And I emphasize that word. They are all equally deity. That means they are all divine in their own right. But that also means that the Father is not a third God and the Son is a third God and the Spirit is a third God.

[5:16] You put them all together and you've got a whole God. That too is complete nonsense. That's trying to make things mathematical in accordance with our understanding. And all I want you to understand, guys, is that the deity dwells in a sphere with a makeup and an understanding that is totally unlike anything that you and I know.

[5:40] So how is he going to communicate the essence and the nature and something about himself to us other than being forced to use some kind of terminology that gives us an idea of what it's like.

[5:55] But that's all it is. It's just an idea. The ineffable God is not defined anywhere. We are talking about one who is omniscient.

[6:07] That means he knows everything. Intuitively. That means he's never learned anything because he knows everything.

[6:18] And if he were capable of learning something, that would mean there was a time when he didn't know something. He doesn't learn anything. And he is omnipresent.

[6:30] He is everywhere at the same time. How can that be? We don't have any idea. We physical beings occupy time and space and we function in a way that enables us to understand and relate to each other.

[6:50] And God is entirely different. And he is omnipotent. He possesses all power. Do you realize that the electricity that enlightens this room and the power thereof resides in him?

[7:16] What? How can that be? He possesses all power. He is the source of all energy.

[7:29] Whatever kind of energy you're talking about, he is the source of it. He's the source of that automobile that is driving down the road and burning gasoline and making the valves work and all the rest.

[7:44] He's behind that. All power and all authority resides in him. And beyond that, I don't know what I'm talking about.

[7:57] Okay? Because he defies description. All I've given you is not even a scratch of the surface. It doesn't even scratch the scratch on the surface.

[8:08] He is incomprehensible. And the statement was made earlier that he realized that Jesus was the Son of God, but he's God.

[8:23] Yes, he is God. How can that be? Well, again, he dwells in an area that is beyond us. But an incident that came to mind in connection with that question, it's in, it isn't in John, it's in the synoptics, and I can't tell you where it is now.

[8:41] But at any rate, Jesus and his disciples were taking some heat from the establishment, the Pharisees and the scribes, and they came up to Jesus and they said, why is it that you do these things on the Sabbath?

[9:02] And Jesus says, well, is it okay to do good or to do work or to do evil on the Sabbath? And and then he made a statement, I can't tell you where it is, but he made a statement regarding himself and he said, for the Son of Man, and this is the way very often spoke in the third person, singular, referring to himself, he said, the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.

[9:33] What? Did you get that? who established the Sabbath anyway? The Creator established the Sabbath.

[9:44] It's in Genesis 1. The seventh day, he rested. And by the way, he didn't rest because he was tired. Oh man, I put into six days of hard work creation.

[9:55] That's nonsense. The word rested means that he ceased. He stopped doing what he was doing because he was finished. He wasn't resting to regain energy.

[10:10] And by the way, there's no energy of any kind that comes from him that, well again, that being the source of all power, he is inexhaustible in energy, inexhaustible in wisdom, inexhaustible in his presence.

[10:32] We are talking about a being the likes of which totally escapes us. And I'm just fumbling, grumbling around for words, trying to make some sense of who this being is.

[10:44] And I am at a loss. So I'm just going to stop there and let that be as it is. Okay? And Jesus said, the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.

[10:55] Well, did he establish the Sabbath, Genesis 1? We kind of get the impression that it was the final. And if you look carefully at the text, there in the Genesis passages, early on, we find a plurality of persons mentioned.

[11:13] Let us make man in our image. Who is he talking to? Some say, well, he was talking to the angels whom he created earlier.

[11:28] That's nonsense. Angels are created beings. They are not creators. And it is the Father and the Son and the Spirit.

[11:40] And as you read Genesis, the Spirit of God brooded upon the face of the waters. We've got all members of the Trinity involved in this incomparable thing called creation.

[11:54] And we read that in the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God. And the Word was God.

[12:07] And the word there is the logos. L-O-G-O-S in the Greek. The logos. That's the word from which we get the word word. And Jesus is God's message.

[12:22] Jesus is God's logic. That logos is the word from which logic comes. Jesus is the Father.

[12:34] The Son is the Father's logic. And He is before all things and by Him were all things created. Without Him was nothing made that was made. It's talking about the Son.

[12:45] Get that? You say, well, Marv, how do you explain that? And how do you understand that? It appears to be a contradiction. Yeah, it does appear to be a contradiction.

[12:56] That's because we just can't wrap our brains around it. so, and we take the position that if it doesn't make good sense to us, it can't be.

[13:08] Then we are inserting ourselves and making ourselves the judge of what is logical and what isn't. He is before all things and by Him all things consist.

[13:19] Paul writes to the Colossians. and in Him and through Him all things, it literally means through the Son all things are held together.

[13:33] Everything is kept in place. This is the planets and the stars and everything is out there and orderly and, but that's not my message this morning. I've got to go on.

[13:44] Let's, let's, oh by the way, John, I think the guys ought to know what this is.

[13:54] Would you be so kind as to count this so we'll, so we'll know. I'm sure she'll count it too, but I want you all to have an idea of your generosity. Yes.

[14:04] Mark, before you get off of that, there's a phrase in there that he says, something like you see me you see my father. How do you claim that?

[14:16] Well, Jesus, Jesus is of the same, the question was, Jesus made the statement in John's Gospel, he that hath seen me hath seen the father.

[14:28] And this doesn't mean, this doesn't mean that Jesus is the father, but it means that Jesus is of the same nature, character, quality, and essence of the father.

[14:47] There is a sense in which they are inseparable. And guys, that gives real meaning to the phrase that Jesus uttered when he was on the cross, when he cried out.

[15:03] You see, we've got humanity and deity blended together. This is, I know it sounds otherworldly, because it is otherworldly. And we've got the father and the son blended together, the spirit is there, and these three all comprise the essence and character of deity.

[15:28] and I do not understand, I cannot begin to get my brain around this, when he cried out, my God, my God, why have you forsaken me?

[15:47] Well, in the first place, that sounds like a question that a human would ask. Isn't Jesus supposed to know the answers?

[15:58] You know, this too, that he's referred to as the theanthropic person, the theanthropic, the theo, is the Greek word for God, theo, from which we get the word theology.

[16:14] And the theanthropic, the anthropic is the word in the Greek anthropos, from which we get the word man, and the word anthropology, which is the study of humans and so on.

[16:31] So we've got the father and the son blended somehow together in a way that we just can't comprehend, but Jesus was screaming and crying out in his humanity.

[16:44] And by the way, it was in his humanity that he was able to die. Deity cannot die. Deity is eternal.

[16:54] deity is of a completely different realm than humanity. So what have we got here which deity and humanity fused into one person?

[17:08] He's the only individual that ever existed like that or ever will. and it was well, the morning's already shot from what I was going to give you anyway.

[17:29] Let me let's go back before the angels were created, before humans were created, before anything was created, before anything existed but God.

[17:46] Think of that. Was there a time when there were no planets, no stars, no humans, no angels, no anything, nothing?

[18:03] And yet, there was the eternal God. Now, this is the position that we Christians take as creationists. and if you do not have, if you do not have some essence of life and energy existing as eternal, then you have to eliminate that and you have nothing else that we can call it other than other than nothing.

[18:50] Nothing. What, how do you define nothing? Nothing is just nothing. And it is also nothing cannot have any intelligence, can it?

[19:14] Nothing cannot have any power, can it? So, you've got nothing that is responsible for everything.

[19:24] Okay. you got that? No, you don't got that because it isn't gettable.

[19:36] You've got to have, you absolutely have to have, even with our finite minds, you have to have an existence of intelligence in order to provide intelligence.

[19:52] In other words, unintelligent life. Think of that. That sounds like an oxymoron, doesn't it? Unintelligent life.

[20:03] Why can it be life if it has no intelligence? Well, there again, we're talking over our heads, but we've got when you take a creationist point of view, as not only Christians do, but most other groups do as well, most other religions do as well, you have in the very first place, in the beginning, in some render that when the beginning began, God already was, that kind of thing, you've got intelligence in the being of the deity of Father, Son, Spirit, dwelling, functioning together, and yet there is nothing that is created.

[20:52] So you've got intelligence that is eternal, and that intelligence is God subsisting in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And by the way, keep this in mind, Jesus was not a human being when he dwelt with the Father and with the Spirit.

[21:19] He was always the Son of God in a way that we don't understand because he did not come into being as a result of the Father giving or arranging a maid to have and to give birth to, and so on.

[21:35] So we've got the Son of God always existing as eternal. But he wasn't Jesus because he didn't become Jesus until he took on his humanity.

[21:55] It is God became flesh, became a human being, and the angel said to Mary, you shall call his name Jesus.

[22:17] Why? Because the word Jesus means Savior. It means deliverer.

[22:29] And you are to call him Jesus because that's going to be his name and his life goal is to be the Savior. The Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

[22:47] So he takes on a name that is a human name that is associated and connected with his humanity and his name is Jesus Savior.

[23:01] But before that he was the Son of God always existed with the Spirit of God and don't ask me to explain that because I can't. But there is a relationship that existed from eternity past before there was anything created or any intelligence or any matter at all.

[23:20] And it was Father, Son, and Spirit. Spirit. And there had to have been some kind of determination or agreement within the three to create.

[23:40] We do not know why God created anything. All we know is it pleased him to do so.

[23:52] And in the Revelation chapter 4, I believe it is, John the revelator tells us that the four and twenty elders bow down and they worship him and they worship God on the throne and they say all honor, praise, dominion, glory, and power be given unto thee, O God, for, or because, thou hast created all things and by thy good pleasure they were and are created.

[24:39] what does that mean? It just means they are giving God credit for having created everything and they are admitting that the reason he did that was because he was pleased to do it.

[24:54] That's all we've got. It was his good pleasure to do it. We aren't told why it was his good pleasure other than the fact that he just had that prerogative and he wanted to exercise it so he created all things and he began by the way with the angelic cord before there were any humans before Genesis 1 God had created the angels they were already in existence and he created them with volition also giving them the power to choose or the power to choose to comply with his wishes or to defy him the angels had that ability and so did our first parents and we know the story and by the way in this look at the big picture this is a contribution from Dr.

[25:41] Reynolds Showers who was on staff for many years with the Friends of Israel and he passed away several years ago but he was a very well recognized Bible scholar and you'll note the date this was in the Israel by Glory magazine issue May, June, 2007 and it is entitled A Look at the Big Picture and that's a little bit of what we're talking about right now the picture that I am describing doesn't get any bigger than this this is the big picture we all every one of us every one of us we live and function in what is our own personal little picture this is the big picture we all have a little picture it's our life it's our story it's our work it's our family it's what we do it's how we die and that we die and all the rest that's all the little picture this is the big picture and it is quite remarkable I

[26:42] I'm amazed that he was able to put so much truth in just a two page article like that but he did that was one of his one of his fortes so then when Jesus was on the cross he demonstrated his humanity by the way how could somebody like this who is God in the flesh you understand that's what that's what Emmanuel means God with us not the son of God although he was the son of God but he is God God with us Emmanuel and in this theanthropic person I wish I had a better handle on this but I'm convinced that we probably never will have because of what separates us and that is infinity but I cannot conceive of a theanthropic person a person with a humanity and a deity how could the humanity part of that being die physically while the deity part of that being cannot die deity is not capable of death

[28:12] Jesus died he really did die so how do you how does Rome kill half of a person how do you crucify half of a person while the other half remains alive again we're just talking about something that we don't understand what is $361 $361 okay thank you guys $361 appreciate your generosity very much I'm sure that will make a merrier Christmas for Michelle otherwise now where was I before the filthy lucre came in well anyway I apologize guys for rambling on like this all I've done is exposed my ignorance but you already suspected that didn't you well when Jesus cried out my God my God why have you forsaken me I just want you to know this guys that something something incredibly horrible took place during those three hours

[29:40] Jesus went on that cross as close as we can determine he was half dead physically when he went on the cross approximately nine o'clock in the morning when the soldiers finished their nefarious task with the spikes in his hands and feet about nine o'clock in the morning and at noon he cried out my God my God why have you forsaken me something indescribably horrible happened in those three hours between twelve noon and three o'clock in the afternoon when he who knew no sin was made to be sin for you and for me and for the whole world because God so loved the world every human being that he gave and there was a rending a separation a division in

[30:52] Jesus between Jesus and his father that apparently they had never known before you see why I call this the centerpiece of the universe that which took place on that cross that we think was so terrible and it was terrible in every regard we tend to think in the physical aspect because we can identify with that we know what pain is we know what physical pain is and we just can't imagine somebody driving nails in your probably not in your hands because I doubt that that's where they I don't think they put the nails there they put the nails here in the wrist because put in the hands the flesh could tear away but if they're in there in the wrist that's something else and we can identify not with that kind of pain but some of us really know what real physical pain is like and if you've had a gallbladder attack or appendicitis or something like that boy did it ever bring you up short and someone has said that a gallbladder attack for a man to have a serious gallbladder attack is probably as close as he will ever come to knowing what it feels like to have a baby that's real pain guys real pain and in that regard

[32:36] Jesus suffered enormous pain but deity can't experience pain you know and yet there is a separation there was a cleavage there that took place that was absolutely horrible and let me tell you fellas that's where the real penalty was paid because what death really is is not a cessation of existence death is not a cessation of existence it is a transfer think of it that way in that respect it has no finality to it do you realize do you realize that everybody who has ever lived is still alive somewhere bodies are dead bodies were eaten by fish in the sea cremated whatever but the real but the real person the spirit that is in that person remains alive somewhere and it is this physical body that we know of that is capable of death so that part of Jesus that died physically was not really the part that paid for your salvation that which paid for your salvation was the separation he underwent from his father see that's what death is death is not cessation of existence death is a separation physical death physical death that we're all in line for is the separation of your immaterial human spirit from your material physical body that's what physical death is it's a separation this is why this is why

[34:52] Jesus cried out into thy hands I commend my spirit he had a human spirit and he had a human body and his human body died and to make sure that it was real that Roman soldier took that pointed spear over and he thrust it right up into the chest cavity of our Lord and forthwith there came out water and blood and any doctor will tell you that is a sure sign that physical death has occurred because the serum in the blood is separated from the blood and you get the white clear like substance along with the red and they are separated and that is proof positive that death has occurred so what really what really paid for your redemption and mine and for the salvation of the human race was his separation from his father that to use a tried expression that did the trick that was really what happened and that fellas that that is what jesus dreaded more than anything else he knew that was coming and in gethsemane he wept and prayed and said oh my father if it be possible let this cup pass from me nevertheless not my will but yours be done what was he talking about we in our humanity we just automatically think when jesus was thinking of the crown of thorns the nail to the cross and all and he wasn't that i don't think that was uppermost in his mind at all of course he wasn't looking forward to it he knew how excruciating that was going to be but that did not begin to compare with the separation that he was going to undergo between his father and himself spiritually and guys jesus took your separation from god for you he took it upon himself by himself being separated from god during that period of time and again in our humanity we look at that and say well now wait a minute that wasn't such a big deal i mean really it was just three hours again we're thinking humanity do you have any idea what it would be like for a separation to occur in deity for a tenth of a second much less three hours we just can't go there can we but understand that's what really purchased your redemption because what what damnation occurs of what eternal death the second death what what it consists of is eternal separation from god and we look upon that as well aren't people separated from god now yep they sure are if they are not in christ they're separated from god but when they die and go into eternity that separation is in force forever and this is why the scriptures call it the second death the separation is eternal and it's an amazing

[38:53] thing to consider if you're born once you're going to die twice but if you're born twice you just die once you get that are you with me there makes all the difference in the world and this this death that jesus died that we say was such a big deal three hours and not only that but three days later he's going to come back to life again so what's the big deal about that anyway well we're talking about the same kind of the same kind of thing we just cannot we just cannot bridge this great gulf that separates humanity from deity but take my word for it it's an insuperable gap that we just cannot imagine and I've often put it this way this is this is not a good illustration there is no good illustration for this how do you separate deity from humanity how do you separate time from eternity there is no good definition but the best I can use is still kind of woeful picture the little creature an ant just a little insect black ant red ant choose your color doesn't make any difference little ant what what to what degree is the separation between an insect like an ant and a human being in other words let me put it this way how many ants equal the value of a human being are you worth a thousand ants a million ants what would be our response to that do we not place human life the value of it above the value of everything else

[41:13] I know there are flaky things out there now that consider us just the top of the creation or they don't even consider it creation they consider us being the latest and most complex expression of evolution that's that's how they regard us and there are people who want to assign a value to animal life that is almost equal to that of human life and that's really far out weird thinking but there are people who are going that way so I want you to understand the proportionate value between the life that was given for the world and people ask a very legitimate question you say that Jesus died for the sins how is it possible for one person to die for what do we got now six billion people and how many billions have passed on before and you you mean to tell me that this one person was able to be the sacrifice for billions of people yes that's what exactly what we're saying you understand guys the value that was inherent in the crucifixion all rested upon the identity and the value of the person there it was because of who

[42:53] Jesus was that he was able to do what he did and he was the only one who could do it and he was willing to do it nevertheless not my will but thine be done Jesus another occasion cried out what shall I say what shall I say father save me from this hour and then he added these words but for this hour came I into the world oh my well I I wish I better understood what I'm talking about but I don't and amazing grace how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me was lost but now

[43:53] I'm found blind but now I'm seen Michelle we want to thank you dear for your excellent service putting up with this bunch of old guys well we're not all old only Don and I are old rest of you young pups well here take this with you and that to your pot thank you thank you we appreciate you thank you yeah merry christmas merry christmas okay well okay I would like to I would like to tell you well I'm going to do this

[44:53] I really feel bad because it's being christmas and I well how can you feel bad when you're talking about the lord and the word so but I just I'm in my later years I have become so mentally undisciplined in what I intend to bring and it was affecting me at church too and I could tell but the people I don't well they may have recognized it I don't know but after after 50 years they may have they may have seen it coming but well I'll tell you what next week we'll have a christmas message for new years okay and we'll bring what we plan to actually this material tied in with what we were talking about this morning it's just that

[45:54] I tied a lot bigger than what I intended so we'll but I do hope you keep these I mean I'm serious keep these forever these are incredibly valuable documents these three sheets that you have I hope you will treasure them always because the truth that is in them is just I don't know where else you'll find it especially so concise as it is and while we're while we're waiting for the food to come I would ask you to look at this sheet Jesus claims to be God and we'll talk just a little bit about that because make no mistake about and this by the way is from the outstanding book can you believe that John McDowell's book Evidence That Demands a Verdict had its 50th anniversary of publication a couple of years ago who can't believe that Evidence That Demands a Verdict it's undergone a revision and it's a valuable book but here he starts out that

[46:59] Jesus claims to be God there are two alternatives and there isn't any other way that you can slice this his claim was true he was who he claimed to be or he was not and if the claims were false if Jesus really wasn't God then there are just two alternatives he wasn't God and he knew it but he just tried to con everybody or he wasn't God but he didn't know it in which case he was suffering from delusions of grandeur we would say he was mentally ill so these are the two alternatives if he wasn't who he claimed to be he either knew it or he didn't know it in the first case he was a liar a deliberate liar tried to con everybody or in the second case poor man he was just demented he actually thought he was

[48:09] God but of course everybody knew that he wasn't or his claims were true and if his claims were true then he is who he claimed to be and that comes down to you have two choices you can accept you can reject the alternatives are there it is spelled out very clearly I'm sure a lot of people have no idea or have not reasoned this or thought this out but this in my estimation is an amazing piece of logic it really is and in my thinking it is absolutely impossible to refute so this is why I say it's valuable keep it I trust forever and then on the reverse side of this you see regarding his bird and we won't go into that because in the other sheet on the incarnation it is more detailed explained in a detailed way this was put together by

[49:16] Marvin Rosenthal I think I've told you about him before a little bit and Marvin Rosenthal was the as a young Jewish lad he's the one I told you about and worked in his parents delicatessen in Philadelphia and the lady that came up to pay her check said that she was praying for him and Marvin Rosenthal said you're praying for me and she says yes I'm praying that you might be saved and he says do I look like I'm drowning and then he says lady the only thing I want to be saved from is nuts like you and he just saw her as a religious fanatic and that's the way a lot of people regard that today in fact I just made a new CD and I hope to have it today but I'm running behind and it's about 20 minutes long it's evangelistic and

[50:22] I'll see that you get a copy when it's available they called it the title is saved whatever do people mean by that term and then I go on to explain many times the Bible talks about physical salvation like somebody who was saved from drowning or whatever and then there is also a saved that is spiritual that's the one that people don't get they don't understand when you tell them ask them whether they're saved so I'll see that you get that a copy of that and also guys I want another apology I'm full of apologies that they aren't years ago I did a series on Christianity Clarified on hermeneutics and there are several issues regarding that and I had hoped to have copies available today for anybody that wanted them and I didn't get them because we've been so busy getting out these

[51:26] Christmas CDs in a dozen or so restaurants and outlets that allow put it like they do here we've got about eight or ten of those others some in Champaign County and some here and I've been servicing those and it's taken up all my time I've been busier since I retired than I was when I was working so I haven't got that done and I want you to have those at least those of you who want them they represent in my estimation the greatest keys imaginable for understanding appreciating and really grasping the scriptures it's just remarkable what it does for people who get into it and it's all about hermeneutics so we'll set forth the big picture and well I've got it quick the food isn't here so I'll take questions anyway if anybody got any questions or comments I haven't given you anything to think about have I yeah okay kind of overwhelming yeah boy a discussion years ago about when Jesus was a baby was he fully like he was trapped in there until he grew up or he was conscious that he was God as a baby

[52:51]  I really can't answer that definitively I just don't know that among a whole bunch of other things that I don't know I cannot give you a good answer on that but it's worth talking about but we can't do it now so maybe we can open that up again thank you ladies for the great service appreciate it very much thank you guys welcome