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[0:00] in connection with this parable that ought to be pointed out before we leave it. And one has to do with the very last phrase that is used, wherein our Lord says, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart, which of course indicates he is speaking about a genuine kind of forgiveness rather than a superficial, glib kind of forgiveness that isn't real forgiveness at all.

[0:32] Because where real forgiveness has been extended, it will be demonstrated in the attitude with which we treat that person. Because forgiveness means to bear away, to carry, to dismiss, to no longer take into consideration.

[0:51] And that involves some other complications, some of which at least we will be addressing in the message this morning. And also within this same parable, the question that Peter asked, How often shall I forgive my brother? Up to seven times?

[1:10] Is it all right if someone offends me seven times and I forgive him? And Jesus said, I say unto you, seven times seventy. I can assure you that Jesus was not saying, actually you need to forgive him four hundred and ninety times.

[1:31] But, the four hundred and ninety first time, you don't have to. That's not what he's saying at all. What he is saying is, that forgiveness is to be in place as long as it is needed.

[1:48] And that might be for a very long time. Now, I realize there are complexities that come to the surface in connection with the theme of forgiveness.

[2:00] And, there is almost no end to the what ifs that can be added to it. One of which we will be dealing with before the message concludes.

[2:10] Because, someone submitted a very interesting and I think well thought out question. That, obviously, is a thorn in their side in connection with a personal relationship.

[2:24] And, with apology and forgiveness. So, we'll be treating that question. And, it was submitted anonymously. So, whoever you are, thank you for taking the time to do that. We will do our best to treat it.

[2:37] The most sublime sensation that one can experience is the obtaining of forgiveness from one that we have offended. Whether it is God or man.

[2:50] The assurance of forgiveness relieves one of the monster of guilt that tends to consume us. We know when we have wronged someone.

[3:04] We know when we have offended God by our attitude or our actions. And, the knowledge of being forgiven is that which frees us up within ourself.

[3:18] And, it releases us from the agony of guilt. Because, guilt. Guilt is emotional pain that is created by having violated a standard.

[3:34] And, we are out of sorts within ourselves. And, well, we should be. In fact, guilt is a wonderful provision that God has made for us. That helps us to change our behavior.

[3:47] Helps us to repent. And, helps us to be on a better course. The psalmist said, How blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven.

[3:59] Whose sin is covered. How blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity. Now, in our last session, we dealt just briefly with what appears to be a contradiction regarding forgiveness.

[4:18] And, by the way, let me just make this observation. There are many, many places in the scriptures, from Genesis to Revelation, where the scriptures appear to be in contradiction with itself.

[4:33] You need to understand that these are only seeming contradictions. And, when once you understand the details that are involved in both of those cases, and sometimes take into consideration the dispensational distinctives that are involved, you will see, as we shall see this morning, that what appears to be a contradiction is in appearance only.

[4:58] There are no contradictions in scripture. And, I know it's entirely possible that you have heard a lot of people say that. Oh, there are contradictions in the Bible. And, the next time you hear that, tell someone kindly, gently, You really think there are contradictions in the Bible?

[5:16] I was not aware of that. Would you please show me one? I'm interested in knowing where they are. Don't be surprised if you get a response like this. Well, I don't know exactly where it is, because I'm not a Bible scholar or anything, but I know they're in there.

[5:32] That's just stuff and nonsense. They heard someone else say that. And, it was usually someone in a position of authority, like a college professor or someone like that, just makes a statement.

[5:45] Of course, we all know that the Bible contradicts itself in a number of places. And, you would be surprised how many young students just put that down and log it as a fact.

[5:56] Because, Professor so-and-so said so. And, he's a smart man. He has a PhD. So, everything he says, you can believe. Well, it just isn't so.

[6:07] There are no contradictions in the Bible, although it needs to be admitted that there are many, many places where there appears to be such. And, we have a case like that before us.

[6:20] In Matthew, chapter 18, the passage that Gary just read, talks about forgiveness. And, there is no question that it is conditional.

[6:32] That's the teaching of the parable. And, when we consider a verse that we looked at in our last session, in chapter 6 of Matthew, and verse 14, Christ said, as clearly and as plainly as it can be stated, For, if you forgive men for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

[7:03] There is no way that that can be taken except as conditional. God's forgiveness of those to whom Jesus was speaking was dependent upon their being willing to forgive one another.

[7:18] And, then, it is clinched in the next verse, 15, But, if you do not forgive men, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

[7:33] So, how does this square with Colossians? Come there, if you will, please. Just by way of review, I want to run this by you again.

[7:45] We looked at one reference there. We'll look at another in the following chapter. In Colossians, chapter 1, where the Apostle Paul addresses the issue of forgiveness, and he has something entirely different to say.

[8:03] Colossians, chapter 1, and note, if you will, verse 13 and 14, 4, He delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

[8:27] How many? Which ones? Paul isn't specific at all. He just, it just sounds like he's lumping all of our sins together, doesn't it?

[8:43] And then, if you turn the page to Colossians, chapter 2, and verse 12, we'll just begin there, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with him through faith in the working of God who raised him from the dead, and when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us, and he has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

[9:39] But look at that verse 13, the last phrase, having forgiven us all our transgressions. How many is all?

[9:52] What is left out? No reason to believe that anything is left out. It seems to be very inclusive. Having forgiven us all our transgressions.

[10:03] When did he do that? When you became a child of God. When he accepted you, pardoned you, cleansed you, justified you, along with that came an incredible package of forgiveness that was blanketed upon you so that God sees your sins no longer.

[10:23] One of the most tragic aspects about comparing Matthew with Paul is the absolutely unconscionable way that it is approached even by many clergy today who take the position, well, Paul is much more shall we say overly generous with his description of forgiveness and he doesn't seem to attach any condition to it at all except that one believe and confess Christ as his Savior and you enjoy this blanket of forgiveness.

[11:04] But that is Paul's version and Paul's view of God's generosity. Jesus gives us the one that really matters.

[11:16] And I would much prefer to go with forgiveness as Jesus has expressed it than I would with how Paul has expressed it.

[11:27] You would be surprised how many circles in which that is standard fare and they actually pit one writer of scripture against another and say well, after all, we know that Jesus is the real authority.

[11:43] I would feel safer going with what he said. You must understand, dear friend, you really must understand this, that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and all scripture because it is God breathed is equally authoritative, none is more so than any other.

[12:07] It is all the word of God. It is merely a different human penman that God used to write it. But there is one author of scripture and that is the Holy Spirit.

[12:22] When Paul writes under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, it is with the very imprimatur of God himself. it comes from God.

[12:33] When Moses writes, it comes from God. When Jeremiah writes, it comes from God. When Ezekiel writes, it comes from God. When Paul, John, Peter, or James writes, it is all inspired of God.

[12:47] And some of that isn't more the word of God than some other part. It is all equally inspired. So if what Paul says comes with the authority of God, and what Matthew says comes with the authority of God, Matthew says that forgiveness is conditional.

[13:09] If you do not forgive your brother, God will not forgive you. Paul talks in general terms and says, having forgiven us, past tense, by the way, past tense, all are transgressions.

[13:24] Well, what about those transgressions you haven't committed yet? Those that are future. Or don't you plan on committing any?

[13:36] Well, I guess we never do plan on it, do we? But they just kind of sneak up on us and blindside us, and our old nature betrays us before we realize what's happening.

[13:48] Do you realize that when Jesus Christ died and paid the full and complete price for your sin, all your sins were future then.

[14:01] So we do enjoy a blanket of forgiveness, but how do we reconcile these? Can they be reconciled? Absolutely. But in my estimation, there is only one way that they can be reconciled, and that is to realize, to understand that Jesus is speaking of forgiveness as it was applied on the other side of the cross, under a different dispensation.

[14:30] Paul the apostle is addressing the issue of forgiveness after Christ paid that ultimate price on the cross. So one is pre-cross, one is post-cross.

[14:43] In which one are we living? We're living in the post-cross dispensation. We are on this side of the cross.

[14:55] Christ was on the other side of the cross. And by the way, just understanding that simple fact will explain so many perplexing problems in the Gospels.

[15:10] You cannot, in my estimation, you cannot possibly resolve these things without noting the obvious dispensational distinction.

[15:22] This that Jesus gave was for a different time, a different place, under a different administration, and it was spoken strictly to the Jewish people.

[15:33] Even Christ would not have even thought of trying to apply that principle in Matthew to Gentiles. Gentiles, non-Jews, without the law of Moses, without any understanding of sacrifices, forgiveness, or anything else, he would not even think twice about trying to impose that on Gentiles.

[15:57] They would have no appreciation, no understanding for it at all. Christ is speaking in the Mosaic economy under the law, and that's exactly the way it is. It was a conditional thing.

[16:12] And in their dispensation, they were also well familiar with the principle of sacrifice, and when you offended God, or you offended your brother, and you sinned, and you needed to offer animal sacrifice, all of which of course was looking to the ultimate sacrifice that would be paid, but they didn't know that.

[16:31] They didn't understand that. They were just behaving themselves in accordance with what the Mosaic law required, and it was a system of sacrifice. That's the way sin was dealt with. The whole sacrificial system was devised by God to instill, ingrain, inculcate in his chosen people the whole principle of sacrifice, the innocent dying for the guilty.

[16:58] And having conditioned them with that process of animal sacrifice for hundreds and hundreds of years, and tens of thousands of animals, they were equipped and prepared to understand the concept of sacrifice when Christ would become the ultimate sacrifice on the cross.

[17:17] It would give meaning and purpose and value to the death of the Son of God, only because it was preceded by all of those innocent animals slain hundreds of years before Christ came to the earth.

[17:33] So what we have is a distinction that has to be maintained between two different programs. And if you don't make that distinction and lump it all together, you do have a contradiction.

[17:47] And it cannot be resolved in any way that I can see. But when you understand two different programs, one for the Jew under the Mosaic dispensation, which came to an end with the bringing in of the new covenant that Christ established the night before he died when he said this cup is the new covenant in my blood, the very next day he went to that cross and that became the basis for canceling out all that was against us.

[18:29] That became the basis for being justified. That became the basis for all our transgressions being forgiven in the finished work of Christ.

[18:41] Now, it's all well and good that when you receive Christ as your Savior, whether you realize it or not, you were accepted in the Beloved.

[18:59] You were cleansed and pardoned and forgiven. wonderful things happen to you, most of which you were not even aware at the point of salvation.

[19:16] We've studied those in the past. There are 33 simultaneous things that take place when someone comes to faith in Jesus Christ and we aren't even aware of most of them at all.

[19:30] and when we are forgiven fully and freely and forever of all of our transgressions, does that mean then that we don't sin anymore?

[19:46] of course not.

[19:58] We are still capable of sin in attitude and action. It is that now, there's no way we can justify it because we are in Christ and as has been pointed out, even though as a Christian, we may and we do sin, but we don't have to.

[20:25] We choose to. We have a new nature. It isn't that a Christian cannot sin, it's that a Christian need not sin.

[20:36] Sin is not inevitable for a believer. Possible, but not inevitable. Very possible. because we are still indwelt by an old nature.

[20:50] So, what about the sins we commit after we are saved? And this troubles some people just really to the extent that it causes them sleepless nights.

[21:04] I know I received Christ back when, I know I was saved then, I know I was received then and pardoned then, but, I also know that sometimes I really blow it and I do something I shouldn't do or say something I shouldn't say and I know when I did it.

[21:24] I know I blew it, I knew I offended God, I know I was unkind or untrue or something to somebody and I was really out of line.

[21:35] what am I going to do about that? Some think if you sin after you were saved that just proves you weren't really saved because really saved people don't sin anymore.

[22:00] That's called holiness doctrine. There are churches that believe that and they believe that when you get the second blessing which is a result of having prayed and agonized through, the first blessing is salvation and you pray and agonize and you plead with God and you beg with God and he bestows the second blessing on you and the second blessing makes you sinlessly perfect.

[22:34] so you are completely sanctified. Therefore you no longer sin. Well I'm not going to try to spend much time in refuting that.

[22:45] I think that it's probably really not necessary. We know that that is just not the case. We know we still have the flesh and the old nature and that's the thing that we use to sin with.

[22:57] It's the old Adamic nature, Romans 6. Christ. So maybe after we come to faith in Christ and then we fail our Lord in some miserable way and really mess up our life through some terrible thing that we do, maybe then what we need to do is get saved again.

[23:22] And there are churches that believe that. That you lose your salvation each time you sin and you have to get saved again. And this is how you account for in some churches they give an altar call for those who want to repent of their sin and receive Christ as their Savior and they're down front every week because they had a bad week last week and they're getting saved all over again and they're repenting of their sin all over again and they get a little bit of mileage out of that.

[23:56] It makes them feel forgiven because they went forward and they confessed their sin and then the next thing you know they're right back in it again. And their motto is you must be born again and again and again and again and however many times you sin you get saved all over again.

[24:16] Well, I think the scriptures soundly repudiate that as well. When you become a believer in Jesus Christ you are not put on probation.

[24:33] You are provided with salvation and you are given eternal life. It is not temporary life, it is eternal life.

[24:45] Yet, that still does not address the issue and the question, what happens when and if we sin and we do from the time that we came to faith in Christ.

[24:58] What do we do with that? I think once again it is required that we have a clear-cut distinction and I don't see any way that it can be avoided.

[25:10] So, we'll make a distinction here between our state and our standing. These are two radically different things even though they are connected and it is important that you be able to understand the distinction between them because they are true of every one of us.

[25:36] in our state, in our state, our position is temporal.

[25:51] What that means is it can fluctuate. It changes. That's your state. But in your standing, it is permanent.

[26:06] your standing with God is fixed. It is permanent because you are in Christ.

[26:19] And your standing is dependent upon the faithfulness of Jesus Christ. It is dependent upon the work that Christ accomplished on the cross.

[26:31] That's what gives you your standing. Your state that means the condition you are in at the present spiritually. Your state fluctuates because sometimes you are driven by the flesh and sometimes you are driven by the spirit.

[26:56] Sometimes you act out of the flesh, sometimes you act out of the spirit. Nobody is in between. We are one or the other. And Romans 6 and 7 make that very very clear.

[27:09] So our state is dependent on you and your behavior. Your standing is dependent on Jesus Christ. That's why it is fixed, definite, secure, settled, and that's why your standing is not going anywhere, but your state can fluctuate.

[27:30] and this has to do, your standing has to do with your relationship and your state has to do with your fellowship.

[27:48] And those two are also radically different. Your relationship relates to your connection with God. And because you are in Christ, you are as connected with God as Jesus Christ is his only son.

[28:07] Now, I know that sounds like a stretch, but it is really true. God loves us with the same love with which he loves his son. You are accepted in the beloved, and that means that God accepts you in the same way that he accepts his own son in whom he is well pleased.

[28:28] That means he is well pleased with you. Not because of what you have done, but because of what Christ has done, and he has put that in you. That makes you a new creature in Christ.

[28:40] This is wonderful. It is absolutely exhilarating. Our fellowship, like our condition, is temporal. Our fellowship depends on how we are functioning, whether responsibly or irresponsibly being in Christ, whether we are operating from the flesh or from the spirit.

[29:04] That is our fellowship. In other words, relationship is permanent and it has to do with our connection with God, but our fellowship has to do with whether or not we are on good terms with him.

[29:18] You may be a child of God and not on good terms with him at all. In the same way as with an earthly relationship, you are the son or the daughter of your father.

[29:34] And there isn't anything that can change that. That's permanent. That's fixed. Even if you should be disowned, you're still his kid or her kid.

[29:49] Nothing can change that. That's permanent. But the manner in which you relate to them and how you get along with them, while it does not affect your relationship, it certainly does impact your fellowship.

[30:07] You may not even be on speaking terms with them. But you're still related and that doesn't change. And so it is for those who are in Christ.

[30:19] The difference between state and standing is significant. And now we come to the issue of personal sin as a believer and how are we going to treat that? And I have not found any satisfactory explanation at all among grace people regarding this.

[30:36] They eschew 1 John 1 9 which says if we confess our sin he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Grace people by the carload jump on that oh you can't use that you can't use that that's John that's not Paul we've got to stay with Paul you can't use you can't use that that's not Pauline well my question then is this does the believer in Christ sin can he sin oh yes yes we are told oh yes we all know that Christians can sin well what do you do as a believer about your sin what are your options well you can take the position Christ forgave us of all of our sin past present and future and that's true therefore when you sin you just ignore it because it's already forgiven just ignore it how do you do that well you pretend that it never happened pretend that you never did it after all it is already paid for isn't it past present future yes it's already paid for then you don't have to worry about it just ignore it but let me ask you doesn't that sound strange to be ignoring anything that is real would that be the same thing as denial and are we supposed to engage in denial pretending that something didn't happen what do we do with it good question what do you think and if you admit it what do you do to whom do you admit it deny it forget it ignore it how about if we admit it own up to it acknowledge it now

[33:08] I'm not suggesting that we install a confessional booth by the way that isn't faring too well even with our Catholic friends today it's just not all that in vogue but since all our sin is really in reality against God I think that's the one to whom we ought to take it and of course as we've been saying if we have offended another person through our actions or our attitude we need to apologize and we need to seek their forgiveness but I'm talking about dealing with sin that we have committed as a believer and knowing that we have somehow wronged God through our behavior I am of the opinion that we need to acknowledge it and we need to confess it we need to confess it to God now here is where the plot thickens and this gets complicated so

[34:13] I want you to follow me and I want you to look for chinks in the armor as I present this because I am not at all completely convinced that this is the way it is but this is the way I understand it and the caveat that I want to offer is I may well be wrong in some aspects of this and if you can find one where I am I really mean it when I say I would appreciate your saying Marv this won't work because or this is not logical here or this contradicts that or something else I'm certainly open to that because I'm looking for a resolution to this and it is very very important to me because I don't like the feeling that guilt produces in my spirit it makes me almost unable to function

[35:23] I don't like trying to operate or accomplish anything while I am also dealing with guilt feelings so for those who may have the ability to shrug it off deny it or forget it because Christ has already paid for it I can't do that my conscience my spirit just will not give me rest it will keep me awake at night I can't do that so what do I do I'm looking for relief and I I confess my sin to my heavenly father and I want to make another really important distinction here I never ask God for forgiveness I feel it would be insulting to do so and whatever grace people may think about

[36:34] Johannine writings 1 John 1 9 in my estimation sets forth a principle and principles are cross dispensational principles aren't limited to any dispensation but applicable to all dispensations and if we confess our sin he God is faithful reliable trustworthy to forgive us our sin that means you can always count on God to do it this is why you do not ask him for forgiveness because what is implied when you ask for forgiveness what's the implication maybe he will maybe he won't so you ask him to out of respect and out of not knowing what God is going to do maybe he'll forgive you maybe he won't forgive you but you have to ask for it beg for it or plead for it none of that is true if we confess he is faithful and just that means

[37:50] God's righteousness is not solid or compromised because he forgives you and the reason it isn't is because of that price that Christ paid he is faithful and just to forgive us all unrighteousness what does it mean to confess now this is where this thing gets sticky and I want to explain to you where I am coming from I think I think it really in my estimation it fits doesn't mean it will fit in your estimation but the word is homo legato where's my darker pen did I leave it over here oh I put it in my pocket I do this in the workshop too look for pencils can't find pencils in my pockets because it's behind my ear homo legato homo legato and this is a rough breathing here it's pronounced with an

[39:08] H and this word homo means the same like we use the word with homogenized when milk is homogenized the milk and the cream is all blended together and it's homogenized so that everything that is in the milk bottle is all the same it's all mixed together it's homogenized and when we use the term with homosexual we're talking about same sex and when you use the word homo legato this means same words or it means to say the same thing when you confess when you confess to something that you have done you are making an admission you are acknowledging something and you are agreeing with the charge when a suspect is brought into the police station for questioning and they suspect that this person may be guilty of a crime he's sitting there at a table and a police officer is asking him questions and maybe his lawyer is seated across from him and he is accusing the individual of having committed a certain crime at a certain place and there is an eyewitness and we saw you and you were noticed you were seen you have been nailed and if that suspect comes clean we call that making a confession he may even sign a confession agree what he's doing is he is agreeing with the charge that has been leveled against him and he is saying

[41:23] I did it I confess I acknowledge it now forgiveness is an entirely different thing there he isn't saying I confess and now of course I'm asking for society to forgive me will you set me free well we know it doesn't work that way in the criminal justice system but God doesn't operate a criminal justice system and what we do when we have sinned and we know we have sinned we confess acknowledge admit our sin to God we agree with God that this thing we did is sin with whom are we agreeing we're agreeing with God because the word of God specifically spells out behavior that is acceptable and that is not acceptable and we know we have acted wrongly and when we admit that to God God's forgiveness is automatic there is no question and there is a condition the condition is if we confess and what does that do does that confession does that confession and admission of guilt does it restore our relationship no because the relationship was never changed the relationship always remained intact but it does restore our fellowship fellowship and being out of fellowship

[43:05] I don't know about you but it is the feeling the emotion the internal anxiety that I feel when I know I am not on proper terms with my heavenly father so what do I do I know what the problem is I know what I did I know what displeases him so I go to God and with words God reads the heart you don't have to articulate it openly or outwardly God knows exactly what's on your mind you don't have to articulate it audibly if you don't want to God isn't deaf but when you do you own up you acknowledge you agree with God that what you did was wrong and you thank him for his forgiveness because you know it is there and while the relationship was never changed the fellowship is restored the sweetness returns just like it was before that's the way it works for me and

[44:29] I can't see any other way don't know about you to confess means to agree it means to say the same thing the same thing as what the same thing as what the scriptures say about what you did you acknowledge it lying cheating nasty surly attitude bitterness towards someone whatever it may be unkind unacceptable as Christian behavior and if it doesn't bother you it should and the only way I get relief is by acknowledging it and I'm not getting saved all over again I am just receiving loving kind forgiveness from my heavenly father with whom the relationship remains intact and now with whom the fellowship being on good terms with him is restored we admit it by naming it say it with words homo legeo now let me treat for the moment we have left this question that was submitted it says you rightly mention that the only one who could remove the darts arrows and or spears is the one who put them there please address how the offended should live their life in the meantime what what if what if the offender never and they have never apologizes they have never underlined what if the offender never apologizes how should the offended one act especially when it is a mate or a family member that one spends a lot of time with even if the offended makes the offense known and tries to resolve it there's still no apology forthcoming well

[46:55] I am sorry to have to tell you this but I think this is the only truthful answer and that is the relationship remains threatened and the distancing continues for the simple reason that we are dealing with a relationship and a relationship always involves a minimum of two people between whom a transaction can take place you cannot have a one sided transaction you cannot extend forgiveness to someone who does not seek it now I know there are people who will differ with me on that and they'll say well I don't have to have anyone ask me for forgiveness I just forgive them anyway automatically even if they don't ask no you haven't no you haven't and the reason you haven't it's not because you don't want to but it is because forgiveness getting it and giving it is a transaction and the word trans t-r-a-n-s trans means across there has to be an entity at one end and an entity at the other end for there to be a transaction it has to be between two people there's no such thing as one sided forgiveness or one sided transaction it has to be requested and granted now

[48:28] I may sound like I'm being hard nosed about this but I think it is a very important point let me make a careful distinction here we as believers ought to always have a forgiving attitude toward anyone who has wronged us but having a forgiving attitude toward someone and forgiving someone is not the same there are two volitions involved here in order to do business there has to be activity with both volitions not just one and when you have a forgiving attitude which is what you ought to have what you are saying is so and so wronged me deeply and that hurt me very badly and I really wish that they would give me an apology so that I could forgive them but even if they won't

[49:32] I know I would forgive them if they asked that's a forgiving attitude that's coming from a position of forgiveness whereby you are eager and willing to grant forgiveness but you can't grant it if they won't request it it's just like buying and selling it's a transaction you want to buy a certain item but the other party refuses to sell it so do you think you can say well I'm just going to buy it anyway no you're not it's their possession if they're not willing to sell it you can't buy it doesn't make any difference what you're willing to give them for it it's because a transaction involves two volitions two people there has to be a willingness on the part of the seller to sell and a willingness on the part of the buyer to buy then you can have a transaction it works that way with forgiveness if there is no forgiveness requested what does that imply if an individual refuses to ask forgiveness if they have wronged you and they refuse to ask forgiveness that is coming from one of two possibilities number one they deny that there was an offense

[50:51] I don't need to ask for forgiveness for anything I haven't done anything so there is denial on their part or they may refuse to ask for forgiveness because they are hard hearted and stubborn and said well maybe I shouldn't have said what I did and maybe I hurt their feelings but they ought to just get over it that's the hardened heart speaking they shouldn't feel that way well their skin is too thin in other words it's not my fault that I offended them it's their fault that they were offended they shouldn't have been offended and fellas don't ever say this to your wife don't I know because it'll get you in trouble don't say when something has taken place between her and someone else and and explains to you how it hurt or how it made her feel trust me the worst thing you can say is you shouldn't feel that way so what have you done you have just assigned blame to her for feeling the way she does you shouldn't feel that way and what you're saying is it wouldn't affect me that way therefore it shouldn't affect you that way if you're going to be logical and reasonable like

[52:23] I am it shouldn't affect you that way either which is another kind of put down and trust me your sweetheart does not need that added to the pain that she's already dealing with not only that but your mate has an entirely completely different set of emotions than you do and they are not wrong they are just different from yours respect the difference and don't try to change her so that she will feel the way you feel and therefore end of problem it just doesn't work that way if the offender refuses to apologize you can and should have a forgiving attitude toward them but you cannot complete the transaction because it's a one sided situation if you go to the party and explain to them how it hurt you or how you were offended by their behavior and they just ignore it or brush it off that is simply an indication as to their insensitivity and they are saying that's your problem it's not my problem that's your problem and very often what is happening in a case like that is the individual is suffering from an overdose of egotism and they will not allow themselves to be lowered to the position of admitting that they were wrong and asking for an apology and once again that's back to the hardness of heart type thing and we're all potentially guilty of that so

[54:20] I am sorry to tell you this but as long as those attitudes prevail if they do not change you are not going to get the offense resolved because it takes two to be offended and it takes two to resolve the offense otherwise a reconciliation is impossible and there are situations like this our Lord addressed them and they ask him why is it so and Jesus said in the beginning it wasn't like that but Moses made provision because of the hardness of your heart hardness of the heart goes with the fall tragic but true all the way in the back Lynette has a question and we won't be able to take any others so we'll just try to entertain hers and what do you have honey

[55:20] I understand what you said that we should not ask God to forgive them but I have a little problem with it myself because I feel like even though even if Bill would be so wonderful as to say no matter what you ever do I will always forgive you I would still feel like I need to apologize to him when I do something wrong and say will you forgive me even if I know he will I feel like if I would not ask him that that's being very presumptuous to say I'm sorry thank you for forgiving me you know what I mean so I feel like just because of our humanness and how I'm used to saying it to Bill to say to God I'm sorry I did this thank you for forgiving me instead of saying would you please forgive me or

[56:20] I know you said you would forgive me so thank you for forgiving me it just feels uncomfortable like I'm like I'm not taking it for granted which I know he has forgiven me but I still feel like I need to ask well well I would I would simply I see where you're coming from and you're looking for you're looking you're looking for a certain feeling and I'm saying that the distinction between human and God is really real and this is why we this is why we craft the apology and we ask for forgiveness from another person because forgiveness is a gift and it is theirs to give or withhold maybe they should forgive but they don't have to they don't have to but God has to you understand that

[57:20] God has to and someone says what do you mean you can't tell God he has to forgive oh yes you can because if God doesn't have to forgive you're in big trouble big big trouble he has to forgive you because Jesus Christ paid it all and and the payment and the payment is not presumptuous on the part of God it is with a spirit of thanksgiving that we tell God this is what I did this has injured my fellowship with you thank you for providing forgiveness for this I receive it and accept it and I appreciate it that spirit of gratitude and thanksgiving to God is of course always in vogue but when we're dealing with forgiving and asking forgiveness from another person we need to recognize their authority in the issue as the wounded party they are the ones with the power and we need to recognize that it is in their control as to whether or not they will forgive and of course they should and

[58:36] I want to deal with this later but some forgiveness cannot be instantaneous I mean a man cannot go out on the town be unfaithful to his wife be found out the next morning and say honey I'm sorry I was unfaithful to you and I shouldn't have done that will you forgive me and she says oh yes of course I forgive you ha ha ha it doesn't happen that way doesn't work that way because that's not the way we're put together and we'll detail more of that in our next session may we stand please we'll be dismissed father we recognize that there are intricacies about this that we still do not fully grasp as much as we would like and we look to you for direction and wisdom as we tend to work our way through this because we recognize its importance and more than sufficient provision that you have made for us through the finished work of

[59:41]  Jesus Christ he alone is all our plea we bless you for such a wonderful savior in his name amen