Transcription downloaded from https://sermons.gracespringfield.com/sermons/42972/monthly-study-tribulation-millennium/. Disclaimer: this is an automatically generated machine transcription - there may be small errors or mistranscriptions. Please refer to the original audio if you are in any doubt. [0:00] Well, I think there will be plenty of opportunity for some Q&A and some feedback during this session because I am determined that I am not going to simply lecture, but we're going to discuss these things. [0:13] And in some respects, we've been over a lot of this material before, but what I want to try and do by way of clarification is enable you to perhaps get a better fix on these issues and the things that divide us in Christendom. [0:32] And sad to say, Christendom is greatly divided over these issues. And when I use the word Christendom, I'm speaking in a broad general sense, and that includes the main bodies that are generally categorized as being Christian. [0:51] That would include Roman Catholic and Protestant as well. And those two groups comprise, of course, millions of people. [1:02] And the differences that exist between them, I mean, there aren't too many differences that exist within Catholicism. But within Protestantism, there are three major distinctions and positions that are held regarding these eschatological issues. [1:22] And eschatological is just a fancy word that is used in the Greek for last things. It's called eschatology. That's the study of the doctrine of last things. And within Protestantism, that's where you find more differences. [1:38] And most of those in the Catholic persuasion are pretty much together because the Roman Catholic Church takes one particular position, and then all of the faithful are to line up behind that. [1:51] But with Protestantism, it is not that way. And we know there are a lot of different opinions and doctrines that are arrived at within the body of Protestantism, which, sad to say, greatly decreases its effectiveness and its influence. [2:09] I am satisfied that there are two or three really great negative emphases that Satan probably has more success with than anything else. [2:25] And we know, of course, the principal one is deception and confusion and chaos. He loves to keep things stirred up. [2:36] He loves to keep people divided. He loves to keep people uncertain of anything. That's when he does his best work. And it is only when believers settle on something, get zeroed in on it, see the biblical aspects of it and the biblical support for it that can go forward, they're really the only ones in a position to make a difference because everybody else is just kind of fuddled around, and it's difficult to get anything accomplished. [3:01] And I have come to a brand new position regarding the effectiveness and the pervasiveness of his infernal majesty. [3:15] He's involved his fingerprints are only even more than what I suspected, and I think as time goes on we're going to see that more and more. It is just amazing how he is behind so many things. [3:28] And in the field of eschatology, there's certainly no exception. So what I would just like to do is focus in some generalities between these two great issues over which Protestants primarily are divided and see if we can come out with a coherent singular position that we feel has good biblical support. [3:56] And we need to admit this up front, that whatever position we arrive at, it does not come with any infallibility or any absolute complete certainty. [4:10] As you have heard me say often, I don't care what your position is or where you're coming from, theologically. All of our doctrines have some wrinkles in them. [4:22] None of us has this thing altogether. And if you run into anybody who insists that they do, that's a good person to avoid and stay away from. [4:34] Because we just don't have that kind of information that gives us that kind of confidence. But we are reasonably sure of a number of things that are really important, and that's what we want to talk about. [4:46] These two great areas that don't completely cover the field of eschatology, but they are probably 90% of it. And one, of course, is the tribulation, and the other is the millennium. [5:01] And you would be surprised how many Christians, and I'm talking about people who've been saved for years, don't know the difference between those. [5:13] And it's a little embarrassing. If there's anybody like that at Grace, please don't let me know, because it would depress me. But I know from talking with people over the last several years, there are a lot of Christians, and these people are going to be in heaven, you know, but they just really don't know the difference between, and they just probably thought it didn't matter that much. [5:33] But the easiest way to keep them in mind is the tribulation means trouble, big trouble. Seven years of trouble for this globe. [5:46] And the millennium is a word taken from the Latin, which means a thousand. Millennia, a thousand. [5:57] So right there, you've got a major key up front. Tribulation is just seven years. It's going to be really bad, but in seven years, it'll be over. [6:09] The millennium is a thousand years. And to give you an idea of how divergent views are regarding that, let's go for just a moment to Revelation chapter 20, last book in the Bible. [6:26] Revelation chapter 20. And I'm going to begin reading with verse 1. [6:36] John the Revelator. This is the same one who gave us the Gospel of John. And 1st, 2nd, and 3rd John also wrote the Revelation. [6:48] As far as we know, he's the only one of the apostles that did not die a violent death. He died, apparently, of old age, having been exiled on the Isle of Patmos by the Roman government until he, some say he was in his 90s or close to 100 before he passed on. [7:11] This John, of course, is the brother of James, who was beheaded early on in the book of Acts. And he was, John was one of the sons of thunder that referred to. [7:23] And yet, as he matured and developed and grew in the grace and knowledge of Christ, it was no longer appropriate to call him a son of thunder. Remember, it was he and his brother James, when they were visiting with the Samaritans, and got a little bit of flack, James and John, these brothers, says, Lord, why don't we just call down lightning from heaven and zap him right here and now? [7:49] And that's how they got the name sons of thunder, because they were impetuous and judgmental and rash. And John mellowed over the years, and he became known as the apostle of love. [8:05] And that's what maturity in Christ will do for you, and it did that for John. And he, of course, was used of the Lord to pen that great John 3.16. So, here in Revelation 20, we read, And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand, and he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. [8:33] All right? There's a thousand years once. Threw him into the abyss, and shut it over, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he should not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed. [8:47] That's the second time. After these things, he must be released for a short time. And I saw thrones, and they that sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. [9:00] And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshipped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark upon their forehead, and upon their hand, and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. [9:21] There is the third. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. That's the fourth. This is the first resurrection. [9:33] Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection. Over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him for a thousand years. [9:49] There's five. And verse seven says, And when the thousand years are completed, there's six, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. [10:08] The number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they come up. They came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints, and the beloved city and fire came down from heaven and devoured them. [10:26] And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. [10:38] And I won't read any further because we've already covered those mentions of the thousand years of the millennia six times. And believe it or not, the greatest objection that those who deny there will be a literal thousand year reign of Christ have to deal with this passage here because this makes it very clear we who approach the Bible from a literal, cultural, critical, grammatical, historical point of view, which means you approach it at face value unless the context deems otherwise, we take a thousand years to mean a thousand years. [11:25] But those who deny the reality of this and, as I've told you before, I want you to understand this, those who deny the reality of this thousand year reign of Christ constitute the majority, constitutes all of Catholicism and the majority of Protestantism. [11:51] when Luther made his break with Rome, he brought with him considerable baggage. [12:02] He left some things behind. One, of course, was the big one, justification by faith. He insisted on that, and he did not bring the works thing with him from that, but he did bring with him the infant baptism and some of the eschatology and so on, and this is one of the items here. [12:23] So when we who approach the Bible literally say, well, the Bible talks about the thousand year reign of Christ, and they say, well, yes, that's true, but the Bible only mentions it one time, and we say, well, but it's mentioned six times in one passage, and they would say, well, but it means the same thing there every time. [12:44] It means a thousand years as an indeterminate period of time, and their conclusion is, we are right now living in this thousand years, but it is not a literal reign of Christ on the earth. [13:03] It is a spiritual reign, and it is taking place right now. Now, I want to remind you, this is the majority view. [13:15] Anybody that doesn't understand that, we evangelicals, Protestants, Bible believers, represent a small minority of the larger group. [13:28] All right, who are these folks? Well, generally, they are classified as the Reformed position, and the Reformed, of course, came from Martin Luther's efforts because he was regarded as the great Reformed. [13:45] Well, what was it that he was reforming? His goal was, his intent was, to reform Catholicism because the selling of indulgences and other excesses just drove Martin Luther over the edge, and he couldn't tolerate it anymore, and he rose up against it with his 95 theses on the church door in Wittenberg, and that started everything off. [14:11] So, his intent was, and his goal was, his desire was, he had absolutely no intention at all of leaving the Catholic Church. That was not in his mind at all. [14:23] But the Catholic Church, being what it is, with its claim to infallibility, etc., I mean, how can you possibly be subject to Reformation if you are inerrant and infallible? [14:39] What is to reform? In fact, it's counterproductive. It is a tacit admission that you don't have it all together at all. [14:50] And one of the great, what I call a faulty assumption, a leading faulty assumption, of the Roman Catholic Church, or what became the Roman Catholic Church, was this. [15:04] And I can understand the logic of it because it makes sense a little bit. And that is, the Bible is inerrant and infallible, and it comes to us with a perfection from the God who inspired it. [15:22] No dispute there among believers. But based upon that reality, an infallible, inerrant interpretation is necessary to complete that revelation and to make it available to everyone. [15:43] So you've got an inerrant, infallible book from God, and that necessitates an infallible, inerrant interpretation of that book. [15:58] Follow me? Who is equipped and qualified to provide an infallible, inerrant interpretation? [16:10] Only the church. The Roman Catholic Church, the Pope, the Korea, is it the Korea, or the Korea, whichever they call it? And it is that council. [16:23] And in a way, you can see kind of the logic of that, can't you? I mean, if this book is infallible and inerrant, and the understanding of it is dependent on what? [16:38] Well, it's dependent on the interpretation. Well, who's qualified to give an interpretation of what this thing means, this Bible means? And they just kind of morphed into that position. [16:54] An infallible book requires an infallible interpreter. And that means the Bible, the passages, the chapters, the verses, they mean, by way of interpretation, what the infallible interpreters say that it means. [17:14] And that's why, of course, they're just not open for argument or discussion. It's a slam dunk. Everything is settled. And that's where they're coming from. Anybody else has a phone? [17:26] It would be a good idea. Let me turn mine off, too. I just love these modern conveniences. [17:38] I love this one so much, sometimes I just like to throw it as far as I can. I always told Marie I would never own a phone that was smarter than I am. [17:49] And then, for my birthday, my son got me one. What are you going to do? Anyhow, so, what we are talking about is the infallibility of Scripture and the Roman Catholic Church, of course, believes. [18:05] And you can see this position is really quite essential to their authority and their existence. And you stop and think about it. They are dependent upon that and they have made themselves dependent upon it. [18:19] And, you know what? It has worked rather well for them. And I won't go into the other issues regarding that, but the position that they reach is the one that I have expressed with you from this passage, that the reform position and how it got the name reformed, of course, is because Luther's original intention was to reform, not leave, but to reform the Catholic Church and the Catholic Church was simply not open to that. [18:49] And in a sense, they couldn't be because that would be a tacit admission that they were not all they were supposed to be to begin with because why do you reform something that's perfect? You know, so he was beating a dead horse, as it were, and yet the term kind of stuck and they became known as the reformers. [19:07] And I have to tell you this little side story because it's kind of funny. Most of you know Paul Pongos or knew Paul Pongos. He's with the Lord now. Paul and Dave Weinbrenner were both like an elder brother to me. [19:27] I relied a lot on those two men and they taught me a lot. I really appreciated them. But when Joe passed away, Paul was getting along in years and he took up residency in this beautiful retirement home in South Carolina close to his daughter Donna and Dave where they were living there in the Carolinas. [19:54] And this was a Presbyterian retirement center and I got to visit him there and it was just a beautiful place. You know, very well appointed and everything was just top drawer, just great stuff. [20:04] And he was telling me, he says, you know, he said, I was talking to the administrator when I checked in here and made arrangements for my place and everything and I said, I wonder if the people here would be interested at all in a Bible class. [20:22] And the guy said, well, yeah, he says, I think they probably would. There are a number of people here that, you know, from the Presbyterian church, they'd be interested in a Bible class. And Paul said, well, that's great. He said, I'd be happy to teach something like that. [20:33] Maybe we could just put up a little notice and anybody that wanted to come could come and Paul said, well, that'd be great. He said, by the way, he said, what would you, can you give me an idea of what you would be teaching? [20:47] Paul says, well, sure. And of course, he was coming from a great position, you know, and he told him a little bit about the scriptures and about rightly dividing the word of truth and so on, the church distinction between the church and Israel and so on. [21:01] And he said, and this guy just had a kind of, kind of had a frown come over his face and he said, well, he said, I don't think, I don't think your line of doctrine would be all that appropriate here. [21:15] And Paul said, oh, well, really? Well, what's the problem? And he said, well, the reformers would disagree with that position. And Paul said, oh, well, he talked a little bit more and then the guy came back. [21:27] But the reformers said, he said, this came up about four or five times, the reformers, the reformers, the reformers. And finally, Paul said, and you know, I just had enough of that. [21:38] And I just asked him, I said, well, tell me, what, what is it that makes the reformers the authority on all this? [21:50] and he leaned back and he leaned back and he said, well, because, actually, it's because they were the reformers. [22:05] And Paul said that he knew right away he wasn't going to get anywhere. So he says, okay, okay, well, and he just dropped it and he never did have his Bible class and never did get started. But that's where they're coming from, the reformers. [22:18] And that's their position of authority. And it is a modified Roman Catholicism. Reform theology is a modified Roman Catholicism. [22:32] And the closest thing to Roman Catholicism that still considers itself Protestant is the Church of England. And it brought more baggage with it than what Luther did. [22:44] So the Church of England and the Episcopal Church are pretty much one and the same. They're just a different name. But they are even closer to Roman Catholicism. [22:57] And then out of Martin Luther's what came to be known as Protestantism, then there arose certain other sects. [23:10] And the first one out probably was what I've already mentioned, the Church of England. And that was under Henry VIII when he started that, the Anglican Church. [23:22] And he brought baggage with them from the reformers, including what we're talking about in the eschatology. So when it comes to the doctrine of future things, evangelical Protestants constitute a minority and we're kind of in this thing alone. [23:43] And we are about the only ones who see it this way. And even within that group, as you know, the Grace folks take a different position yet. So there's more division even so. [23:54] So what we've got is a situation that is still very much fragmented. and I'm convinced that again, Satan loves this because it's the old divide and conquer thing. [24:10] And by the way, you can see what's going on right now in our nation, politically, culturally, how factions are developing almost overnight and it's division, division, division, and voices of authority are becoming fewer and fewer and less and less dependable. [24:28] And chaos is beginning to set in where people aren't sure of anything and don't know who or what to believe and there is as much fake news out there as there is real news and this is a beautiful climate for the adversary to do his work. [24:45] And he makes hay while the sun shines. Marvis? I saw someone speaking about all of this and he shoved like a pie chart and he said, you know, Satan is no dummy. [24:58] He did not put this negative type of religion, you know, not just Roman Catholicism versus Protestantism. [25:10] what he did was worked with people so that there's all kinds of things. There's Roman Catholic, there's Mormon, there's, you know, so that's what's totally confused people because that's why they say, well, I don't know what religion, quote unquote, can believe. [25:28] So it's, that really messes people up because they think that there's all these others and basically there's two. You either believe in Jesus or you don't. Yeah, that's true. That simplifies it, but that's not what's out there and that's not what they're getting. [25:42] Yeah. So regarding these particular subjects, I want to spend a little bit of time with, we, this thing, this class has been so fragmented because of the COVID thing and we've stopped and started different things a number of times and, and, and it's, but I'm determined to see this thing on through with this future, future items. [26:03] So let's take a look, first of all, if we may, at the, um, tribulation period because it's, it's next in line followed, following the rapture and, uh, these two major things, these are the two biggies, tribulation and the millennium and, we're not planning on being here for either of them but that too is controversial and as you take your sheet and you look at the rapture position, you see the pre-tribulation rapture view and if you look at the past ages and the cross that's of course indicative of, of, um, the crucifixion of Christ and you see the church age that follows that distance right under it and then we have the rapture. [26:54] This is for the pre-tribulation rapture view and it begins right after the church age. This is the church removed. The references given are 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15. [27:10] We believe that these are rather clear passages. They spell it out very succinctly and we just don't have any difficulty taking them at face value that they mean what they say that we will be caught up in a moment in a twinkling of an eye will be changed the dead in Christ shall rise first and so on and we see these as being specifically limited to the Pauline revelation. [27:37] You do not find prophecy regarding the rapture in the Old Testament. It just isn't there and you don't find it in the Gospels. Even though if you look at the sheet that you were given about the rapture and the return, the two aspects of his coming, you will note that on the page that is labeled at the top two aspects of his coming. [27:59] There are rapture passages, second coming passages. I want you to notice under the rapture passages, the authors and they are Tommy Ice and Timothy Denny. [28:11] They begin with John 14 1 through 3 and here is where we have a division. Now these are reputable godly men who drew this up. [28:24] They are pre-tribulation also. They love the Lord and they just see things differently than we do because we are of the opinion that that which pertains to the rapture, that which pertains to future things is not a subject of prophecy in the Old Testament. [28:47] Now it's going to be a subject of prophecy in the New because Paul talks about it in the references we've already talked about. In 1 Corinthians 15 and in 1 Thessalonians 4. So he's talking about it there and it is prophetic there but it isn't in the Old Testament so it's not revealed there. [29:03] And he begins with John 14 1 through 3 and we would respectfully decline and say those are beautiful verses but they're not talking about the rapture. [29:14] as well as if you look across the page you will see James 5, 7 through 9. [29:26] We don't believe those are rapture passages nor Hebrews 9 28 nor 1 Peter nor 1 John or Jude 21. Those are all in reference to second coming passages not rapture passages and the difference between the two of course is significant. [29:45] And in the right hand column they have second coming passages and with those we can agree but and this doesn't affect anybody's salvation but it affects our comprehension our understanding and the consistency of our position. [30:00] And we believe that those things are important because we are convinced that when rightly interpreted everything in the Bible fits with everything else in the Bible and if you've got areas where there is discord and discontinuity and appears to be a contradiction something's wrong somewhere because God does not speak out of both sides of his mouth at the same time. [30:29] There is connection between everything in the Bible and if we're not able to make the connection because we're not understanding something but the Bible is not a book that contradicts itself and that's a very very important passage because if it did well it would be impossible to put any confidence in it. [30:48] It really would. So I think that is clear. And if you look at the passages of the seven year tribulation this is for the pre-tribulation position. [30:58] Now if you turn the page over you've got a mid tribulation rapture view and that means that halfway through the tribulation that's when the church is raptured. [31:13] But the church which is the body of Christ is going to be here for the first half of the tribulation and that is called the mid trib position. [31:26] There are a number of people who embrace that and one of their bases for believing that is that believers do not deserve to escape half of the tribulation. [31:43] In fact and those who are post-tribulation now that's another view that means you go all the way through the tribulation and that the return of Christ isn't until the end of the tribulation so the church will be here for the whole thing. [32:00] The whole seven yards. All seven years. So you've got pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib. Now they mean just what the prefix says. [32:10] Pre means before. That means the rapture occurs before the tribulation begins. That's pre-trib. [32:21] Mid-trib says three and a half years into the tribulation then the church is removed. Marv Rosenthal completed Jew and a considerable Bible scholar that I really respect. [32:41] I've met him and talked with him a little bit and I disagree with him but he takes a view that is different from mid-trib and post-trib. [32:53] He even slices that and puts that between those two. So his position, I guess you would say he's like a three-fourths trim. [33:06] You see what I'm saying? And his position is that the church is going to be here for the whole nine yards except, you see, for the first part of the tribulation it's going to be man doing the worst he can do to his fellow man. [33:27] And that's going to be pretty bad. And the second increment of the tribulation is going to be Satan doing the worst he can do. [33:38] Not that he isn't involved in the first part also, but in the second part he's going to have a more complete reign on the earth. And then the third part, which is the vials or the bowls, is the worst that God can do. [33:59] That's going to be the direct judgment from him. The other is through these intermediaries. It's through man, and then through Satan, and the last is through God. And Marv Rosenthal's view is that it is prior to the pouring out of the bowls of wrath from God, then the church will be raptured. [34:19] So we will be here for likely three-fourths of the tribulation, and I read his book on the pre-wrath rapture, and I had great difficulty getting through it because to me it was not coherent, and I just could not buy the argument. [34:36] And by the way, at the time he arrived at this position, he was the president of Friends of Israel, and he took it over from its original founder, who was Marie, what was his name? [34:58] You're not paying attention. I can't think of the name of the fellow who founded the rich. Yeah, Victor. Thank you. [35:09] Victor Buxbosin. He was a European Jew who came to faith in Christ, and he wanted to start a ministry to reach the Jewish people, and he began, he got the name Israel My Glory from a verse in Isaiah, where God was referring to the nation of Israel, and he called Israel My Glory, and he named the magazine that you get Israel My Glory, that's where it got its name, and Friends of Israel became the name of the organization, and Marv Rosenthal took over Friends of Israel from Dr. Buxbosin when he retired, and then when he came to this position, because Friends of Israel had from their beginning taken in their doctrinal statement a pre-tribulation position, and Marv Rosenthal, who was the president of the organization, reached this other conclusion, and they had to have a big meeting, and the end result was he had to resign, and he left [36:22] Friends of Israel, I understand on good terms, everybody's on speaking terms, but it was just a breakup nonetheless, because they came to the conclusion, well, we can't have the president of the organization teaching a doctrine that is contrary to the statement of faith of the organization, and how is it going to look if we change our statement of faith because of this one man, so they had to agree to disagree, and Marv Rosenthal had to go, and he graciously resigned, they accepted his resignation, he started another organization ministering to Hebrews, and it's called Zion's Hope, and it is located in Florida, and it came about because of the book that he published, this change that's called the pre-wrath rapture that I was telling you about, and the magazine that he publishes is very much like Israel [37:23] My Glory, I get both of them, and it's called Zion's Fire, and it's got some good articles in it, but they are all tinged with his position regarding the rapture, so you can see how divided Christendom is regarding this, and that's the way it's probably going to be until the Lord comes, and someone has facetiously said, you know, I just can't wait for the rapture to take place, and I said, well, you know, we've got things that we need to do here, and that's why the Lord is tarrying, because our job obviously isn't finished here, and when it is, he'll call us home, and I said, other than that, why are you so excited about it? [38:01] And he said, well, he said, I guess maybe it's just the flesh, but he said, I have a lot of mid-trib friends, and post-trib friends, and it's going to really be hard for me to keep from saying on our way up, I told you so, I told you so. [38:22] Well, we're supposed to be devoid of the flesh by then, you know, so we will all have been changed, and we won't be able to gloat, or have that capacity. Anyhow, that's where we are with the rapture, and I'm not even going to look at the post-rapture position, because I just feel that it's got, it just has too many wrinkles in it, and there's just not, I'm not going to take the time to devote any time to it, but let's look at the millennium now, this is a big item, and our friends, and by the way, I want to emphasize this, and I trust that you understand this, it doesn't matter what position you take regarding things to come, as long as your faith and your trust is in Jesus Christ, who paid the penalty for your sins, we're going to heaven, whoever believes that is going to heaven, doesn't matter how wrong you are in your theology about other things, but that does not, [39:23] I just can't bring myself to take the position that one dear brother said, you know, I get tired of all this pre and post and pre-trib and mid-trib and all the rest of it, and millennium, and I said, well, there's nothing you can do about it, you just have to try to decide which one fits the scriptures the best in your view, and he said, well, I've looked at the different passages, and they all have some arguments, he said, so, I just decided I'm going to be a pan-millennialist, and I said, well, I've never heard of that one, what's the pan, and he said, everything is going to pan out in the end, well, maybe he's got a point, I don't know, but I do think the scriptures teach pre-millennial position rather clearly, and let me make this point, because this is very important, for the first 300 years, after the death of Christ, the pre- millennial position, was the only one, all of the early church fathers, bought in to a pre- millennial return of [40:35] Christ, and it wasn't until replacement theology started showing up on the scene, and I've talked about that because it's so important, and they reached this idea that the church had become the replacement for Israel, and if you understand what was happening in that first century, the Jews already have under their belt the rejection of their Messiah, and the complicit nature of the leadership of Israel in the crucifixion, of Christ, and handing him over to Pontius Pilate, so they already had that, and they already had the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple that Jesus predicted in Matthew 25, and 30 years after his prediction, 40 years after his prediction, that came to pass, and the [41:37] Romans did that, and they destroyed Jerusalem, and that was under Titus the Roman general, Israel, and eventually the Jews came back, and they started regrouping and rebuilding things again, and then they rose up with another rebellion because a man came on the scene by the name of Bar Kokhba, K-O-C-H-B-A, Bar Kokhba, and he claimed to be the Messiah, and he succeeded in gathering a rather large number of Jews to his side, and they fomented another revolt against Rome, and it was called the Bar Kokhba Revolt, and this was in 131 A.D., this was about, this was about 60 years after the Romans destroyed the city in 70 A.D., and this time they came in again. [42:36] Rome is still the world leader, they came in again, and this time they really flattened everything, and their view was, we have had it with these Jews, we are going to completely eliminate this place, and they just decimated everything, they crucified a lot of people, led thousands and thousands into captivity and slavery, and they even changed the name of the city from Jerusalem to Capilatina, and they put up a sign that said, no entrance for any Jews under penalty of death, and that went on for a long time. [43:10] Now when you take these kind of treatments against the Jewish people, everybody is wondering, wow, where was God? [43:24] Where was God with his favorite chosen people in 70 A.D. that he would allow this to happen? Well, God was in the same place as he was in 586 B.C. [43:38] when he allowed the Babylonians to come in, and in 722 B.C. when he allowed the Assyrians to come down and take the ten tribes in the north off captive. Each and every time it was a result of the rebellion and the idolatry of the Jewish people. [43:56] And the general consensus that started surfacing near the end of the first century, and this is really important, happened. And then it was solidified even more with the Bar Kokhba revolt. [44:10] Thirty years later, more and more people were thinking, wow, it looks like God is really through with the Jew. [44:22] Look at all that's happened to them. And they were being persecuted, they were being scattered, and it was terrible what was happening to the Jewish people. And more and more started adopting this position called, they didn't call it this, they just assumed, they made a faulty assumption that God has obviously written off, boy, this time they really did it, you know. [44:48] I mean, he brought them back from Babylon and restored Jerusalem and so on with Zerubbabel and Nehemiah and building the wall. And in 70 AD, doggone, the Jews did it again and God allowed them to be destroyed again. [45:03] And they recouped after that and then in 130 AD under Barcon, they did it again. And they took it as this time God is saying, that's it, I'm done with the Jew, period, forever. [45:17] And he brought on board a new people called the church, the Christian church. And Israel is gone and they are gone for good. [45:31] Israel out, Christianity and the church in. That's replacement theology. That is to this day the majority position among all who call themselves Christians. [45:48] You need to understand you are in a small minority, virtually all of Reformed, all of the Roman Catholic and by the Reformed, I'm talking about the Church of England, I'm talking about 90% of the Presbyterians, most of the Methodists, virtually all of the Episcopalians, they are all in that same eschatological picture of the Jew has been permanently replaced by Christianity. [46:19] and they see no future for the Jew and no more future for the Jew than there is for Scotland or Germany, etc. So that's where we are today in this eschatology thing and that you need to understand that you are really in a minority. [46:38] So what happened then in, as years rolled on, this position of the premillennial position that was taken for the first three centuries or so, they began having thoughts about that too. [46:58] Well, if the Jew is finished completely, then maybe this has changed too. And then they began spiritualizing things. There was a man that came on the scene, his name was Origen. O-R-I-G-E-N. [47:11] The word usually is spelled O-R-I-G-I-N. for Origen, but his name was Origen. O-R-I-G-E-N. And he was a tremendously popular, obviously very brilliant, and he adopted what would be known as the allegorizing of Scripture or the spiritualizing of Scripture so that if you really are able to get beneath the superficial, which they considered the literal interpretation to be superficial. [47:52] If you don't have the ability to get beneath the superficial and see what the text is really saying, then you're just devoid of the deeper truths of Scripture. [48:07] And to give you an example of this, and there are many that that could be given, the word Israel, I-S-R-A-E-L, you think that means Israel? [48:21] Or the nation of Israel? That's only the superficial meaning. But for those who have the ability to look beneath the surface and arrive at the real meaning, you will understand that Israel means the church. [48:45] And you say, well, I just don't see that. I just don't, well, that's just because you don't have the ability to get beneath the literal. You have to stay with the wooden, what appears to be obvious interpretation, but the real meaning is, and this is the same kind of thinking that led to an illustration that I'd given earlier about the four rivers that flow out of the Garden of Eden, the Tigris and the Euphrates and the Farpar, not Farpar, but, well, they're mentioned there in Genesis 4, there's four rivers. [49:22] And you would think on the surface they're just four rivers. I mean, it just says the four rivers that flowed out of the Garden of Eden. And we take that as the four rivers. [49:32] Well, that's, no, if that's all you're able to see, you're just not able to get beyond that. But if you get beyond that to the deeper spiritual meaning, you will know those are not four rivers, they are four virtues, like love and patience and joy and whatever the fourth one is, you see. [49:59] wow, that's deep. Yes, it is deep. I'll let you decide what deep it is. [50:12] But that's the reasoning that goes on. That's called spiritualizing or allegorizing the scriptures. And you know, there is an allegory in scripture. And Paul talks about an allegory and he even calls it an allegory where Hagar represents the law and Sarah represents grace. [50:37] And that's quite clear there. But he's using that as an illustration. interpretation. You cannot subject the scriptures to an interpretation that just ejects all of the literal obvious meaning and look for a deeper meaning beneath that because what is the first peril that you have when you do that? [51:03] What is the control? What is the guide? Your imagination. imagination. And this is how some people arrive at, and we've got this going on now in some of our theological schools, and it's crazy. [51:18] I mean, it's absolutely nuts. And it is this. The meaning of scripture is not determined by what was in the mind of the writer. [51:33] It is determined by what is in the mind of the reader. So what matters is not what the scriptures say, but what does it say to you? [51:47] Which will be different from what it says to you, which will be different from what it says to you. And they say, and isn't that wonderful? Because we all have different needs and different views, and the Bible means what it means to the reader, not what was in the mind of the writer. [52:07] And all logical hermeneutics goes right out the window, and you've got a hodgepodge, a mishmash of unintelligible information that you can't do anything with. [52:23] Carolyn? Is that what they do with Romans 11, 28, where it says there's a partial hardening to the nation of Israel, partial, until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in? [52:34] What do they do with those words? I'm sure they have, I don't know what they do with that particular word, but let me give you an example. Dr. D.M. Martin Lloyd Jones, he was a medical doctor, and he was a pastor. [52:48] I'm quite sure that he pastored Westminster Church for quite some time, and he was a personal pastor to the Queen for a number of years. Super intelligent guy, I mean, really, very brilliant man, and he, of course, was Church of England, Anglican Church, and he bought into what I was telling you about, about replacement theology and all of that, and it's really strange because he came out with a volume on commentaries on the book of Romans, and I'd always admired the guy, and I still do. [53:32] He's with the Lord now, so I'm sure he knows better now. But anyway, he came out with a, and every couple of years, a new volume on the book of Romans would be issued at his name, D.M. [53:47] Lloyd-Jones, David Martin Lloyd-Jones, a very reputable internationally known scholar, and I was quite taken with his treatment of the first eight chapters on the book of Romans, and I couldn't wait for his commentary to come out on Romans chapter 9 because I was really anxious, and I knew the man's scholarship and everything, and I thought, boy, I just cannot imagine how he is going to handle Romans 9, 10, and 11, and I kept waiting and kept waiting, and it was Erdman's, I think it was William B. [54:24] Erdman's in Grand Rapids that was publishing the books, and volume 9 never showed up, and I learned later that he had not intended to take anything beyond Romans chapter 8, and you know what? [54:43] His commentary is really good on those first eight chapters, and I thought, boy, how convenient. If I were him, I think I would bail out then too, and I don't know what rationale he gave, and it wasn't because he died and wasn't here, it was just because he just did not go into Romans 9, 10, and 11, and I thought, boy, I was really anxious to see how in the world is he going to handle that, and the truth is, he didn't handle it at all, and I can understand why. [55:12] So, anyway, I'm getting, you know, comments or questions that you have. Anybody? I have a question. Yes. Yeah. Do you have a Bible handy that you could look at Isaiah 26, 20, and 21? [55:26] I wrote that down, I was writing down passages that made me think rapture. Yeah. I don't want to convince myself. Isaiah 26? [55:37] Yeah, 20 through 21. I mean, is that even possible to make a connection with that and the thought that God is going to remove his turn? [55:50] I must have the wrong chapter here because there's only 21 verses in this chapter 26. What is it? 20? It's 20. It's Isaiah 26 verses 20 and 21. Oh, 20 and 21. Oh, okay. [56:04] Okay, well, I would start maybe with verse 19. Well, let's, I'll begin with verse 19. Your dead will live, their corpses will rise, you who lie in the dust, awaken shout for joy, for your dew is as the dew of the dawn, and the earth will give birth to the departed spirits. [56:23] Come, my people, enter into your rooms and close your doors behind you, hide for a little while until indignation runs its course. For behold, the Lord is about to come out from his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity, and the earth will reveal her bloodshed and will no longer cover her slain. [56:43] All right? So, what's your question? Is it possible to link that with the rapture of the church? Well, let me put it this way. [56:56] I suppose you can look at that and say that the church here could be an application of that. But the point has been made, and I think it's a very important one, that the interpretation is one. [57:10] it means just one thing. And the one thing it means is what was in the mind of the writer when he wrote it. Or better yet, I better alter that because sometimes the writer wasn't aware himself of what he was writing. [57:28] Writing under inspiration, there were a number of times when the writer did not understand what he himself was writing, but he wrote it because God directed him to write it. [57:40] So there is that possibility. But while the interpretation is one, it is what the spirit of God meant when he gave the text, the application may be manifold. [57:52] There are lots of illustrations of the text, lots of reminds me of type thing, but that doesn't mean that's what it is. So I would not conclude that as being the rapture. [58:05] And by the way, let me inject this too because I don't want to give the impression that the passage in Revelation 20 is the only place where the thousand years are mentioned. [58:15] That is true. That is the only place where the thousand years as such is mentioned. But the concept of the thousand years is mentioned hundreds of times with one word. [58:29] What is it? Hmm? What is that one word? Kingdom. Kingdom. Kingdom. That kingdom is a thousand year kingdom. It is a millennial kingdom. [58:40] And when John the Baptist came preaching, repent, the kingdom of heaven is at hand. He could have just as easily said, repent, the thousand year reign of Christ is at hand. [58:52] That's what he meant. And that's what the meaning was. And for those who say, well, it's only mentioned six times and only in the book of the Revelation, that completely misses the point because the concept of the kingdom just happens to be spelled out for a thousand years, but everywhere else it is referred to as the kingdom of heaven coming to earth. [59:11] Yes, Chris? I always thought it interesting that in Satan's plan with Germany, Hitler's plan was to eliminate all the Jews and have his own thousand years. [59:22] Yeah. Well, you know, Satan, someone has said that Satan is evil, but he isn't stupid. And that's very true. He's smart. He could buy the IQs of all of us and have change left over. [59:36] We're no, we're no match for him in power or in wisdom. He knows a lot more than we do, but he still has his limits. And you know, the beautiful thing about it is as hard as it is for us to get our minds around this, especially when you read the passage that we just read earlier in Revelation 20 about Satan's end, the devil that deceived them. [60:02] Do you think he doesn't know that? Do you think he can't read the Bible? He could probably read it in every language that it's been printed in. So, what's the deal? [60:16] Doesn't he realize that his goose is already cooked? I have a theory about that. And that is, with someone who is the personification of evil, who is such a master at deception, guess who he has ultimately deceived. [60:46] Yeah. He has got such a monstrous ego. He thinks he can still pull it off. [61:01] When the example of that where he tempted Jesus and you know... Sure. And he thought... Sure. He thought he could... I have no doubt about that, Chris. I thought... [61:12] I have no doubt about that. His effort was to compromise the Son of God. And by the way, you need to understand this about the impeccability of Christ because it's an important point. [61:24] Jesus was not subjected to 40 days of temptation in the wilderness to see whether or not he would sin. But he was tempted to prove that he could not sin. [61:36] He was impeccable. He was beyond sin. And Satan actually thought he could compromise him. And if he could have done that, then and there. [61:50] And it's really arrogance on his part to realize that he was taking on deity. And he knew that. Well, he knew that in the beginning when he rebelled. He knew that then. [62:02] And he's got an insufferable ego. So, and it's going to come back to do him in too. And it will be his undoing. Well, we've covered a hodgepodge of some things. [62:13] But if you've got a little bit of clarity that maybe you didn't have before, we've got to dismiss. But is there another comment or question? And by the way, when we have these times together, if anybody needs to be someplace else because you've got an appointment or something, just get up and leave. [62:28] And nobody will think you're rude for doing so. Any other thoughts or comments? Anyone? All right. Well, keep these sheets, if you will, because we've got more work to do with them. [62:40] And we want to pursue this when we get together again. And it will be the last Thursday of the month of July. And it will be here before you know it. [62:52] So thank you for your kindness.