Wisdom from Proverbs 22

[0:00] The book of Proverbs. And we're trying to do some new technology things.

[0:11] ! We've been recording our services with audio for a long time.! But we're trying to start to do video. But sometimes there's some snafus.

[0:24] Hey, could you check that camera out and see if it's on? And then maybe hit the record button. See if that works. We're in the book of Proverbs.

[0:38] And just looking, Proverbs is a book of wisdom. We're going through not every chapter. But trying to just get an overview.

[0:51] And so we've looked at maybe, I don't know, is it five different chapters at this point? And we'll probably look at maybe three more weeks is what I'm thinking.

[1:02] Maybe get us through to Easter. And then we'll switch to something else. But today we're in Proverbs chapter 22. Proverbs chapter 22. And there's, as you know, in these chapters specifically, there's just little tidbits.

[1:20] So there's not necessarily a big theme. But I'll just list a few themes, a few things that we'll see here in Proverbs chapter 22. One thing is about building a reputation.

[1:31] The importance of a good reputation. Another is kind of the dynamics between the rich and the poor. And specifically regarding lending and borrowing.

[1:43] Another is the wisdom of generosity. Being generous. And then finally, we'll be looking at child training and discipline and punishment. And so a lot of things to consider.

[1:56] We're going to, as before, some things we've already gone over. So we might just read through some and others will stop and we'll spend more time on. So let's start here with verse 1. A good name is to be chosen rather than great riches.

[2:11] Loving favor rather than silver and gold. And so this is a proverb about a reputation. Having a good reputation. Or even the figure of speech we use even today is having a good name.

[2:26] A good name. And you know, having a good name or a good reputation is not something that you can buy with money. No matter how much money you have. Now some people, I think, attempt to buy a reputation with money.

[2:40] In fact, there are companies out there that will help other companies with reputation management. And so if there's things that go wrong, things that go bad, they will try to do damage control and try to preserve their reputation.

[2:58] But it's not something that you can really buy with money. And it's not something that you can really gain or earn just overnight in a short period.

[3:11] A good name or a good reputation is something that you gain over a long period of time of being faithful and consistent in your character and integrity.

[3:22] People who want to do business with others, they will look for someone who they know that they can trust. Somebody with a good reputation.

[3:33] Not somebody that they just met, typically. It's said regarding business that people like to do business with those they know, they like, and they trust.

[3:46] And so that's all about building reputation. You want people to know who you are. You want them to like you. And you want them to trust you. And when you build a reputation like that, doors of favor and opportunity will open wide to you.

[4:01] And some people might think, oh, he got lucky. You know, there was a business opportunity that just opened up to him through sheer luck. And that's typically almost never the case, is it?

[4:14] But you've lived a life of faithfulness. People know you, maybe from a young age, for keeping your commitments. And, you know, this is an opportunity to look at ourselves, right?

[4:30] Are we the kind of person that people can trust if we say we're going to do something, that we're going to do it, that we're going to show up? Are you the kind of person that is careful in your work?

[4:44] Or are you the kind of person that is known for cutting corners and taking shortcuts? Are you the kind of person that will be discreet about things? Or are you known as kind of a blabbermouth and you'll just talk about whoever and whatever?

[5:01] Everyone has some kind of reputation. Everyone creates some kind of name for themselves. And the question is, is it a good name or a bad one?

[5:11] It ends here, it says, loving favor rather than silver and gold. And so this is just connecting the dots here. A good reputation leads to favor in life.

[5:27] Verse 22. The rich and the poor have this in common. The Lord is maker of them all. You know, despite the differences, and there are many differences between the rich and the poor, there's at least this one way in which all of us are the same regardless of how much money we have in the bank.

[5:47] The Lord God, Jehovah, is the Lord of us all. We belong to him. Regardless of whether you have billions of dollars or just dozens of dollars in the bank.

[5:58] And all of us, regardless of how much money we have, we owe him our lives. We owe him worship, respect, love, and devotion. And we will all stand before him.

[6:12] One day, we were talking this morning about the judgment seat, the white throne judgment, in which all men will stand before God and give an account for their lives.

[6:28] Now those who trust in Christ will stand clothed in the righteousness of Christ. And we're thankful for that. But rich or poor, doesn't matter how much money you have.

[6:41] Of course, Jesus, you know, made this point. That it doesn't matter how much, and we have the saying, right? That you can't take it with you.

[6:52] And God can't be bought off. You know, some people with a lot of money, they're used to being able to buy people off or bribe folks when you stand before God on judgment day.

[7:03] God's not taking any bribes. Verse 3. A prudent man foresees evil, and he hides himself, but the simple pass on and are punished.

[7:18] The wise, they take account of what's going on around them, and they see, they can see things. You can see things. And two things in particular that I want to point out that I think apply here.

[7:31] One is they can look out and see temptations that are coming their way. Things that might tempt them. And they can hide.

[7:43] They can run away. They can go another direction. They can take a circuitous path around that temptation. The other thing they can see is risky associations, relationships with people, business arrangements that might have some evil in them.

[8:06] Just a couple of examples. I think about maybe someone is invited into a business relationship. But as you ask questions, the legality of the business seems somewhat questionable.

[8:21] And so a wise man will say, no thanks. I'm going to pursue other interests. Or, for young people, you might receive an invitation to a party.

[8:34] And guess what? My parents aren't going to be there. And is that a good idea or a bad idea? When parents are gone and it's just young people by themselves, foolishness abounds and many times evil as well.

[8:50] So hide yourself. Do something else. Don't follow that path. But hide yourself and go another direction. The simple, however, will just go right ahead.

[9:04] And what does it say? And ultimately, they are punished. Whether it's just punished by the circumstances and events of life or ultimately punished on judgment day.

[9:16] Verse 4. By humility and the fear of the Lord are riches and honor and life. Verse 5. Verse 6.

[9:32] Train up a child in the way he should go. And when he is old, he will not depart from it. This is a verse about parents and children and training up children.

[9:45] Now, the word train here is a little bit different. I think how we would use it. But I think it's probably the best translation. This word is most of the time translated to dedicate.

[9:55] Well, how does dedicate relate to training? Another word that you could use is to initiate. You think about dedicating a building.

[10:08] In fact, I think this word is used in talking about when the temple was dedicated to the Lord. It's initiated into its service. And so training a child is the same way.

[10:20] They need to be initiated. You know, children do not come with wisdom. You ever seen those commercials? You get a toy or something or some kind of gadget and it says, battery's not included.

[10:35] Right? And children, they come and they're fun and they're great. But wisdom is not included. You have to add that in later and provide that to your children.

[10:46] And if you do not provide the wisdom, it won't come. It just won't. Not on its own. And so there's a need for training, for instruction.

[10:57] And it's up to parents, as they're the ones responsible for their children, to instill knowledge and wisdom in their children. Children don't just expect that they're just going to absorb wisdom from the air.

[11:10] It does not happen. We need to provide, you know, and there's two ways to provide instruction and wisdom to children. One is through didactic teaching.

[11:22] Here's some instruction. And the other is through the example of our lives. Here's how things are done. And so, for example, if you're just teaching, if you have chores that you expect your children to do, or some kind of skill, you can't just point them to it and say, go do it.

[11:45] You have to teach them how. You know, all of us experience that. You can't take a six-year-old and say, hey, son, the car needs an oil change. Could you go do that for me? It's not going to work.

[11:55] They're not going to know where to start. But if you train them, if you teach them, if you bring them along, then they can learn. There was a speaker.

[12:07] We were just at a homeschool convention this last weekend. And I think this was yesterday morning, actually. The speaker, it was actually one of the movie maker guys. What's his name? Stephen Kendrick, I think was his name.

[12:18] The Kendrick Brothers, if you're familiar with The War Room. And Chase, what are some of the other movies? Courageous, Facing the Giants. Thank you. Really, really great films.

[12:29] Great guys, him and his brother, Alex. But he shared the progression of training when you're training your children. And I thought it was so good.

[12:40] Very simple. But the first step is when you're training children, especially when they're young, you do it for them and they watch. That's the first step.

[12:50] The second step is you do it and they help. They lend a helping hand while you're doing the thing you want them to learn. The third step is they do it while you help.

[13:03] So they're in charge. But you're helping them make sure they do it the way that they ought to. And then the fourth step is they do it and you watch.

[13:14] So you're overseeing. You're making sure that it's done right. But they are fully in control. And I know that many times in my life I've made the mistake of expecting things from my children and sometimes even getting frustrated and annoyed.

[13:30] And I have to stop myself and say, wait a second. Did you teach your child to do this the way that you expected? And if I didn't, then what am I doing?

[13:40] Getting annoyed or upset. This is my job. I'm the one that failed, not them. He only had four steps in the progression. I'm going to add a fifth step. The fifth step is they do it while you take a nap.

[13:55] And that's when things get really nice at home. But one thing to keep in mind, training is not discipline. A lot of times I've seen in families there is discipline when the children don't do it right.

[14:12] But again, they didn't really put in the right amount of effort to train to get them there. It says that if you train them, if a child is trained, they will not depart from it when they are old.

[14:28] Now again, this is a general principle. This is not like a law of physics, but a general principle that if you train a child in the way he should go, when he's old, he won't depart from it.

[14:42] We all have free wills. There are no guarantees in life because of that. We're all free to choose our own direction. But what this is teaching is that what parents do in their children's life matters.

[14:58] And it matters significantly. And so we need to be diligent in training our children. In training them in what? Well, we talked about certain skills of life, teaching them chores.

[15:11] That's important. Teaching them to brush their teeth. Teaching them how to read. Those are all important things. When they're older, teaching them to keep house or how to handle money or wisdom regarding buying and selling.

[15:25] Those are all important things. And those are skills. But we also need to teach them about relationships. Right? How to get along with people. And they start with getting along with their brothers and their sisters.

[15:39] And you know what? If they don't learn that, when they get a job, they're not going to be able to get along with their coworkers. When they get married, they're not going to know how to get along with their husband or wife.

[15:52] Learning how to apologize. Learning how to forgive. Relationships. Another area of training is in character. You know, it's one thing to get your kids to do what is right.

[16:08] To do what you want them to do. To have outward performance. But another thing, that they have the right heart about it. To have that character that they need.

[16:19] To do things for the right reasons. To teach them honesty, diligence, and even things like courage. You know, one of the things that we have tried to do is, I want you to obey, but also, I want you to have a good attitude.

[16:37] And so, it's not okay just to obey and kind of stomp around and not be happy about it. You need to be happy about it. Because this is good for you and good for everyone else.

[16:50] And so, sometimes that's challenging to do. And I understand that, right? But let's at least give it a try. So, sometimes I'll say, Can you show me a good attitude on your face?

[17:02] Yes. And we'll get it. And sometimes it's obviously very strained. But I like to see it regardless. And the last area of training, which I think is the most important, is teaching.

[17:18] What does it say again? Train up a child in the way he should go. And ultimately, the way that we should go is into a relationship with God.

[17:31] Knowing God. And so, as parents, we need to teach our children the ways of the Lord. And not just the law. Not just doing right. But knowing him.

[17:44] Teaching our children to know him. To fear God. To trust him. And to love him. To teach. To train. To show them God's love for them. That they might love him as well.

[17:57] And return that love. Finding their identity in Christ. And just walking with God on a day-by-day basis. That is the most important thing we can train and teach our children to do.

[18:13] And if we're diligent about that, again, there's no guarantees. But the likelihood is that they will continue on in that when they're older.

[18:25] Verse 7. The rich rules over the poor, and the borrower is servant to the lender. You know, everybody likes money. Anybody here? Everybody likes money, right?

[18:36] And so, some people have a lot, and some people have a little. And sometimes you have a little because you're dumb with money. And sometimes you have a lot because you're smart with money.

[18:47] And sometimes, you know, it's just, you know, you were born into money, or maybe had a lot of things thrown at you in life, and it wasn't anything having to do with your fault.

[18:59] It's just kind of how the cards you were dealt, so to speak. But regardless of the reasons why somebody is rich or poor, there are certain ways that the world works because of that.

[19:12] And so, here's how the world tends to work. Those who have money tend to rule over those who have less money. Those who have less money tend to be the servants of those who have more.

[19:24] And that makes sense, doesn't it? If you are poor, what do you want more of? Well, I want some more money. I want to build wealth. And who's the one that has it?

[19:35] Well, the rich. And so, if I serve them, then they'll give me some money. And that's actually a great setup, isn't it?

[19:46] You know, we have things like Marxism, communism, that tries to make everything really fair. We're just going to make everybody totally equal. And so, everybody's going to work the same job, and people aren't going to necessarily serve one another.

[20:01] You're just going to... And does that work? I mean, it's been tried so many times. And still to this day, people... Well, communism has never been tried the right way. If we just did it the right way, then it would work.

[20:14] And I don't know how many centuries of trying in different ways before people realize that this doesn't work. But most people start out their lives poor, right?

[20:29] Think of poor college students or, you know, a young married couple are trying to scrape by. And so, I tell young people, I said the best way to make money is to find somebody with lots of it and find a way to help them out, whether it's be employed by them or start a business where you serve them in some way.

[20:52] The other thing here that is brought up is about borrowing and lending. And it says this again, and the borrower is servant to the lender.

[21:02] And so, if you need to borrow money, if you need money for some reason, whether it's to buy a car or a house, are you going to borrow from a poor man?

[21:15] No, he doesn't have any to give you. You're going to find somebody who's got a lot of money, whether it's an individual or a business, right, like a bank. But, when you borrow from them, you become their servant.

[21:31] And really, you put yourself under their power. They have a certain amount of power over you that they would not have otherwise. While you have that debt to them, they expect something from you.

[21:44] And if you do not fulfill that obligation, they can, you know, take away your home or garnish your wages or whatever it might be, have you punished in some kind of way?

[21:57] And so, it's always good to ask the question, is it worth being under somebody's power to borrow that money? And so, sometimes, the answer might be yes.

[22:11] Well, I've got to live in a house. And so, I'm going to take out a mortgage. I'm going to borrow from the bank. And I think I'm in a good enough position where I can pay that faithfully without too much risk.

[22:23] And so, I'm going to go ahead and do that and provide a house for my family in a, you know, through wisdom, in a wise way. Or maybe it's a car, you know.

[22:36] It's hard to get a job today without a vehicle. Most people today cannot walk to, you know, unless you live in the big city or something like that, you can't walk to work. You've got to drive. And so, you either need to find somebody who will drive you or have your own vehicle.

[22:50] Some people, you might not have the money, but hey, I'm going to make this investment and take this risk. There's always risk with borrowing. But am I going to buy the latest Tesla?

[23:02] That would be a really cool car to get to work. But is that the best, wisest way to just get some wheels to get you to work? Maybe not.

[23:15] And so, use wisdom because there's always a risk when you borrow money. And then, of course, being the one who is lending is always the better proposition.

[23:27] If you want, if you have a choice of being the borrower or the lender, you want to be the lender. Being the one with the money, you have the leverage, you've got more control, more power in business and in life.

[23:39] And it's not that having money is good in and of itself, right? We read that. I think we've looked at other Proverbs on that.

[23:50] In fact, Proverbs 15, verse 16 says this, Better is a little with the fear of the Lord than great treasure with trouble. You know what? If you have to choose between lots of money and the fear of the Lord or being faithful to the Lord, go with the Lord and your integrity every single time.

[24:07] But all else being equal, it's generally better to have more money, right? Provides stability in life. The last thing, last point I'd like to make, I have met some Christians over the years who have looked at this verse and a few others to make a commitment, and sometimes it's a very legal, it turns into legalism, that I am never going to borrow anything ever in my life.

[24:32] So I'm not going to get a mortgage, I'm not going to get a car loan, I'm not going to get a loan of any kind because I don't want to become a servant or a slave to someone. And so, of course, there's, I think that you can always put yourself in risk like we've talked about when borrowing, but I don't think it's always wrong by any means.

[24:59] And so, debt is risky, but it's not inherently wrong. Debt can get you into trouble, and so we ought to be very careful and consider the risks when we do so.

[25:13] All right. Verse 8, This is a common theme throughout the Bible, sowing and reaping.

[25:26] When you sow evil, it comes back to you. When you sow good, it will come back to you. Verse 9, And this is also a theme repeated throughout Proverbs and other parts of the Bible.

[25:43] When you are generous with your goods, generosity comes back to you in the form of some kind of blessing. Many times, it's material blessing.

[25:57] Proverbs 11.25 says this, The generous soul will be made rich. That's talking about physical blessings. And he who waters will also be watered himself.

[26:09] The verse right before that, Proverbs 11.24, There is one who scatters, yet increases more. And there is one who withholds more than is right, but it leads to poverty.

[26:21] And so when you are a generous person, you tend to have more favor in life. People like generous people. People don't like stingy people. They like generous people.

[26:31] They like to do business with generous people. They like to hire generous people. So when you're a generous person, favor tends to come back to you and into your life.

[26:42] I think we do need to be careful, though, about what some might call today the prosperity gospel. There is a teaching that, well, if you just do these things, then God will supernaturally intervene and bring you prosperity.

[27:01] And certainly that has happened in the Bible. God has worked in supernatural ways to increase people in the Bible. But I think these are principles of wisdom, right?

[27:14] This is how the world works. I've got a little story from my oldest daughter and how she learned about this principle, but also not to hold to the prosperity gospel.

[27:32] She was six years old, and she was being taught a lesson in some kind of, I think it was some kind of homeschool event. And the lesson was about being generous and sharing, right? Every six-year-old needs to learn how to share.

[27:43] And so some M&Ms were passed out, and half the kids were told, I want you to hold on to those M&Ms as tightly as you can. Don't share them. And to the other kids, we're going to pass out some M&Ms, and you, you know, pass them around to others.

[27:58] And so this happened, and the kids that passed them around, they had still some M&Ms left in their hand that were delicious, that they could eat. And the ones that held it tightly, what happened?

[28:09] Right? You open up your mouth, and you've got a gooey mess in your hand. And so, you know, a neat lesson. Well, sometime later, you know, because she thinks, all right, hey, if I share, I'm going to get stuff back.

[28:24] That's pretty cool. And so, mom was passing out some Teddy Grahams. Everybody, do you like those Teddy Grahams? These chocolate Teddy Grahams? Oh, somebody else.

[28:35] I'm getting... Somebody else was passing out Teddy Grahams to the kids. I think it was my kids, or maybe it was other kids anyway. And so she gets a handful of Teddy Grahams, and she's thinking, and I know how this works.

[28:51] And so she takes those Teddy Grahams, and she passes them out to her siblings, or her friends, or whoever it was. And I don't even know if she had any left. And then the box of Teddy Grahams was empty.

[29:04] And she didn't get anything back. And she realized, I've been had. This doesn't work how they told me it's supposed to work. And so, of course, that's not, you know, we will see, when you're generous, you do get things in return.

[29:24] You will see that in your life. Maybe not immediately, maybe that in the next two minutes. But when you have, when you build a life of generosity, you build a life in which people will be generous in return to you.

[29:40] Also, I wanted to bring out more of a grace perspective. And every once in a while, as we've gone through Proverbs, I've kind of taken that turn to look at a grace perspective.

[29:52] You know, here, it's being taught that if you give, you will receive something, you can expect to receive something in return. And that is true. But is that the reason why we ought to give?

[30:05] Is that the best reason why we ought to give? I think no, not at all. Jesus taught that when you give, when you're generous, you can expect to receive back eternal blessings, not just physical blessings.

[30:22] He says this in Luke 14, 12, then he also said to them, then he also said to him who invited him, when you give a dinner or a supper, do not ask your friends, your brothers, your relatives, nor rich neighbors, lest they also invite you back and you be repaid.

[30:39] But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed because they cannot repay you. You shall be repaid at the resurrection of the just.

[30:50] So even if you do not receive physical blessings, material blessings in this life, you can expect to receive eternal rewards in heaven and that's one of the things that Jesus taught.

[31:05] But even that, and that feels more spiritual, doesn't it? To look for the eternal blessings. But is that why we ought to be generous? Is because we will earn a returnal, an eternal reward?

[31:18] No. In this age of grace in which we live, what does the Bible say about our eternal reward? In Christ, do we need to earn a blessing, an eternal blessing?

[31:34] No. What Paul says is that when you trust in Christ, when you are in Him, you are blessed with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places.

[31:46] every spiritual blessing. That's Ephesians 1, verse 3. He also says in Romans 8, 32, talking about what God has given us.

[32:00] He who did not spare His own Son but delivered Him up for all of us, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? There is nothing that God will withhold from us eternally in the heavens.

[32:12] And so, since God has already promised us who trust in Him that all things will be given to us, every spiritual blessing is ours, then what's the motivation?

[32:23] What's the reason? Why should we be generous? And so, there's only one reason left. There's not a reason in which you can boast of, but the only reason left is just love.

[32:36] Because you love others. And why do you love others? Because Christ, He first loved us. Because Christ was so generous with His life, pouring out His very life for us, that we also should be generous with others.

[32:53] Paul, when he was taking a collection from the Corinthian church, and they were doing it of a willing heart, but he said this in taking up the collection.

[33:04] He says, I speak not by commandment, but I'm testing the sincerity of your love by the diligence of others. For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sakes He became poor, that you, through His poverty, might be rich.

[33:22] And so, we look to Jesus Christ and what He did for us. And that is our motivation, that we want to be like our Savior. Be generous like Him.

[33:32] And that is why we are generous. Not to earn anything, not to get a material blessing in this life, or not even to look for that heavenly reward, because that has already been given to us by faith alone.

[33:48] Purely out of love. And that is the Christian life. Verse 10, Cast out the scoffer and contentions will leave. Yes, strife and reproach will cease. Sometimes, you have strife in your life and there's one variable in the equation that is the constant.

[34:07] And it's a person. And sometimes, if you just get them out of your life, the strife ceases. And sometimes, there are people in our lives that need to be cast out.

[34:17] And it might be, you know, a bad employee that's causing all the problems in your business. And he just needs to be fired. Sometimes, it's somebody who's causing a lot of problems in a church.

[34:29] And hopefully, it doesn't come to that. But sometimes, people do have to be removed. Sometimes, you just have friends or associations. And it's that one friend in your life. And it's just constant strife and contentions.

[34:42] And you just need to walk away and disassociate from them. Verse 11, He who loves purity of heart and has grace on his lips, the king will be his friend.

[34:55] When you live an upright life, even kings will look to you for friendship. Verse 12, The eyes of the Lord preserve knowledge, but he overthrows the words of the faithless.

[35:08] Verse 13, The lazy man says, There is a lion outside. I shall be slain in the streets. You know, people who are very lazy tend to be very creative.

[35:19] creative and dramatic in their excuses. There's a lion out there. I'm not going out there. Verse 14, The mouth of an immoral woman is a deep pit.

[35:30] He who is abhorred by the Lord will fall there. We've already talked lots about the immoral woman and the dangers there.

[35:41] Verse 15, Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child and the rod of correction will drive it far from him. This is talking about what we would call today spanking or corporal punishment.

[35:56] Proverbs has several instructions when it comes to corporal punishment. We looked, I think it was the last week, about corporal punishment for adults. Here, this is regarding children.

[36:09] Proverbs 29, 15 says this, The rod and rebuke give wisdom. So the rod, that is a form of spanking and also rebuke, that's a word, give wisdom.

[36:22] But a child left to himself brings shame to his mother. If you just let children leave them to themselves, don't bring that correction, then they will self-destruct and they will ultimately bring shame to their parents.

[36:36] Again, just reiterating, children don't come with wisdom. They come foolish without, with needing instruction, needing the training and we need to do that.

[36:51] But a part of, we talked about training earlier, but now there is sometimes the training doesn't stick, sometimes there is a a rebuttal,! a resistance to the training.

[37:05] And when that happens, what is required, that training needs to be enforced. And sometimes it needs to be enforced on the backside. And so, there are various forms of punishment or correction that people do with children.

[37:23] You know, some of it I think is just horrific. Things like just yelling or screaming. Yelling or screaming sometimes is something we could do to try to get our children to obey.

[37:35] Name calling even. And I don't think that is ever effective. And it really can tend to be destructive. But we'll use timeouts sometimes, loss of privileges, doing extra work, sometimes will require restitution.

[37:53] You know, you're doing something you shouldn't and you broke something so now you've got to pay back. All of those things I think are appropriate in a certain manner. but what we actually see in the Bible with children specifically is that the primary recommendation or instruction regarding punishing children or providing correction to children is the rod.

[38:19] I think there are two reasons why we should prefer spankings over other types of punishment. Here they are. One, it's something that you can implement right now immediately.

[38:32] When there is disobedience or defiance or rebellion you can bring the correction right now and apply it to their backside.

[38:45] And when you do that especially when children are younger it's a lot easier to associate the bad thing that I did, the disobedience that I did with the correction that came because they're right next to each other in time.

[38:58] If you wait to the end of the day or if it's a long drawn out thing the association isn't quite as clear. The other benefit I think of spankings is that it can and should be brief.

[39:14] It's something that is over and done with in just a few minutes. It's something that will sting for just a minute and then it's over.

[39:25] And with these other things when you have long drawn out punishments whether it's a time out or extra work that you have to do or you're grounded for two weeks the tension that is between parent and child is prolonged.

[39:43] And when you have that spanking you bring the punishment to bear and then it's over and then the relationship can be restored very quickly. And that's such an important thing because punishment without a good relationship really doesn't go that far.

[40:04] So a few other things. Well how do you spank? What's the right way to do this? And so without getting too deep into this there's whole books been written on these kinds of things.

[40:15] But one I think really you should only do spanking if necessary if it gets to that point. We should be able to sometimes with just a word. Here or one of the verses we looked at talked about a rebuke.

[40:27] Sometimes a rebuke with the word is all that's necessary. And if so then we can leave it at that. Sometimes even just a knowing glance will do right. Bible actually I forget there's a proverb out there that talks about a father ruling with his eyes.

[40:48] So only if it's really necessary. The other is it's got to be for the right reason. Spankings are not for when a parent is annoyed with their children. Or when there was an accident where they spilled their milk.

[41:02] That's not an appropriate reason to spank. You can provide some instructions, some training and that's appropriate but not a spanking. Spankings are for rebellion, defiance, dishonesty and sometimes extreme foolishness.

[41:18] Do not run out into the road. And sometimes we need something that will stick in their mind forever that you are not allowed to do that dangerous thing. Again, I think quickly, do it immediately.

[41:35] Bring the spanking to bear and soon too. One of the common things, and a lot of times I'm looking at my own life here, spankings in private, not in front of everybody, we don't want to embarrass people, typically.

[42:18] Age appropriate, of course. And then you want to leave an impression, right? So it's something that smarts, but ultimately restore the relationship at the end.

[42:32] This isn't something where we apply a spanking and then we're kind of mad at each other or whatever throughout the rest of the day or a week or whatever. Hey, this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you.

[42:44] And I really don't want to do this, but this is the best for you. Make sure that we understand why we're doing this. And then hopefully we can have a hug at the end and restore the relationship because that's what is the primary thing is having that good relationship.

[43:03] Spankings are controversial today. Some people equate it with abuse. I think it's pretty clear, but maybe for some people it's not, but I think to most people it's pretty clear the line between abuse, which is horrific and should be condemned, and a good spanking.

[43:24] I think sometimes many parents are afraid of their own temper, and so they avoid spankings because what their experience is is that the only time they bring out the rod or the spoon or the paddle or whatever is after they've lost it and they feel guilty, and maybe they should because they did not use the right amount of control in applying that spanking, so they just decide, well, I can't do this and so I'm never going to do it, and their children suffer for it because they don't receive the correction and the enforcement that they need.

[43:56] There's a book, I was trying to find it this morning, I think we have somewhere in our church library, called No Fear. It's written by a corrections officer here in Ohio. I'm sure he's retired. This is a book from the 80s or 90s, but his experience in his study of the juvenile correction system here in the state of Ohio and looking at these kids who are in juvie, these young criminals, and studying them and finding out that almost every single one, none of them received spankings when they were younger, and some people might be surprised at that.

[44:31] They think of spankings as abuse or something like that, but when children do not have those boundaries enforced, they tend to go wild. And so, providing those boundaries and enforcing those boundaries is good.

[44:47] And what you'll find is, is that children will look fondly at spankings. And that should be the case. Now, not in the moment, not when it's happening, not right now when I'm in trouble, they won't look fondly on it.

[45:02] But an hour later, a day later, they're going to be thankful, grateful that my dad, my mom, enforced that boundary in my life.

[45:13] You know, and I know this because there have been times where we'll be in some kind of setting, whether it's, you know, they see another sibling who's causing some problems, or maybe it's at the grocery store and some kid is just throwing a fit, and I'll have a three-year-old say, she needs a spanking.

[45:32] He's like, yeah, probably. And so they realize and they see, right, the wisdom. Here's a child that's out of control, and they see that that's not good.

[45:42] It's not good for everybody else, but also it's not good for them to be out of control. And so applying that enforcement to bring them back into safety, to a safe way of life, is good.

[45:56] And then, of course, many of us, and I think men in particular, look back at their life and their childhood, and I think many can look back at that one time where I talked back to mom or whatever it was, and dad took me out to the woodshed, and it was a memorable one.

[46:15] And we look back with fondness of it and grateful for what dad did. And I can think of a few spankings that I got, and I know I really deserve that, and I'm grateful for my dad and my mom for applying and enforcing correction.

[46:36] Because many young people come to a fork in the road where they are going to choose faithfulness or rebellion in life. And their father or mother, whatever, came in and applied that correction and kept them on the safe and narrow and from going to a life of destruction.

[47:01] Verse 16, let's continue on. He who oppresses the poor to increase his riches, and he who gives to the rich will surely come to poverty.

[47:12] democracy. There, you know, when it comes to oppressing the poor, tell you what, we're actually out of time. I just realized.

[47:25] Maybe we'll pick this up next week. Tell you what, we don't usually do this, and I know we hit right at time where we're supposed to end. But let's, since we talked about this, are there any questions or comments when it comes to specifically child training?

[47:46] And I know there could be lots of questions, or the rod or anything like that. Sorry, Keith, I didn't give you any heads up.

[48:04] These are good things to talk about and consider. You know, a lot of churches kind of stay away from these topics topics because it's kind of risky. There's a lot of people that will get mad at you, but I think it is important.

[48:22] And it's okay if there's not any comments or questions, but we have, all right. Joe's going to fall on the sword.

[48:37] Yeah, so, is it on? Yeah. Okay, good. First, just thanks for talking about it. I mean, I think it's, this is good practical stuff and we need to hear it. But, so I got two kind of thoughts that just coincide with what you talked about.

[48:51] I really like when you looked at train of a child and you talked about the fact that one of the maybe translations or, maybe not translations, but the kind of that root word had something to do with initiate.

[49:01] Yeah. Okay, and I wrote that down because, you know, it really is like that and you say they don't really come with wisdom included, right? So, our children are like empty vessels and they do need to be initiated in a direction.

[49:14] Yeah. And one of the things with that is if the parents, if we don't initiate, there's going to be initiation from somewhere else. Oh, that's very good. Right, and so I just think that's something to think about.

[49:24] They're empty vessels. Get in there and fill that vessel quickly. If you don't, someone else will or something else will. And so, just something to think about. I just really like that word as part of train up and I hadn't heard that before, so I wrote that down.

[49:40] And then the other thing just I think with the rod, again, I think you brought out some good things. When it comes to anger, one of the dangers, like with the parent, is that we want the children to understand that this is a consequence for what I did wrong, it's not because mom and dad's mad.

[50:01] Yes. Right? And that's the big thing where I think a lot of the secular world, they were only spanked, and it probably wasn't, maybe it wasn't even a spanking, it might have been more of a beating.

[50:13] Yeah. That's what we're talking about, but the only time that they were spanked, it was the last resort when I finally made mom and dad mad enough, and so the association is all wrong. And that isn't what spanking is, and that isn't what biblical spanking is, you know, it is about the action that I did, and at a young age, understanding that there's pain.

[50:33] You know, there is pain for poor decisions, and I'd rather have that pain be on my rear end as a child, right, than the penitentiary older, or all the things that come in life.

[50:44] I mean, I think as parents, we need to think all the things that are going to come in life to our children if they don't understand the, well, the reaping and sowing principle, and so that's the purpose, you know, of spanking, and our children, I just sit in here thinking, they're so much more reasonable when they're little, right, until other things start to settle into their hearts.

[51:09] Maybe when it becomes, I don't want to say too late, I don't want to ever say it's too late, but boy, if you wait too long, it might be an insurmountable mountain, but thanks for talking about it, I just want to offer those two thoughts.

[51:22] Yeah, that's great, I appreciate that. Yeah, and you know, if sometimes, I think it's somewhat common for parents just to wait until they just have had enough, and then you are in a state that is not good, and so in those cases, and I've been there, it's probably actually best to wait a little while, not for their sake, but for yours, or I guess for both of your sake, but just so that you have a time to, you know, be more reasonable and controlled in how you apply that punishment, because they still may need that, maybe they don't, maybe you're just being annoyed, and it's really on you, and it's not them, they don't deserve that necessarily, but you can think through it more clearly.

[52:04] So, and you know, there have definitely been times where I have looked back, you know, maybe a few minutes later and said, you know what, I did not apply that the way that I should, where I have had to go to my children and say, you know what, yes, you deserve the spanking, and it was appropriate, but I didn't apply it correctly, and I'm sorry, I apologize.

[52:27] And that can go really, really far. And sometimes you need to apologize a week later, you didn't really, don't really, you know, it's always best the closer it is, but apologies can go, can go really far, and children are so understanding.

[52:42] So, anything else before we close up? Okay. Up here. Do you think that there is an age, maybe an age range, where a child gets too old that it's not appropriate, and that it's going to cause resentment more than?

[53:08] That's a great question. It becomes difficult. Really, I think there are certain ages, really, I think into the teenage years, like if a child needs a spanking, you know, I think you have failed in some way early on to apply it.

[53:27] Because, and children are different, some, I can think, I'm trying to think of my own family, like, one or two spankings in their whole life, because they got it early on, and that was it.

[53:40] And others needed additional reinforcement. But, I think that that can be true. I definitely would hesitate, even into the teenage years, I guess.

[53:54] 12, 13. But, because it, man, it becomes much more challenging, for sure.

[54:05] And, you know, the kind of spanking that's required is a lot more meaningful. You know, it's got to be more meaningful at that age. But, I do know people, there's a guy I'm thinking of, and I can't remember how old he was, I think he was 16, and he did something very disrespectful to his mom.

[54:24] And it had been years, and his dad said, you know what, come into the bedroom and took off his belt. And he said, that, like, fixed it immediately.

[54:36] And I never did that again, and he appreciated it. The relationship is what is so important. And if you have a good relationship with your children, I think that is what the key is.

[54:49] So, even if you have to apply something later, in the later years, as long as you have that good heart relationship, they know that you love them, then I think that's what's most important. So, all right, we'll finish up there.

[55:03] Thanks, everybody. I appreciate the comments and the questions. Let's go ahead and end in a word of prayer. Father, thank you for your word, the instruction that you gave us, specifically here regarding children and training and correction.

[55:21] And especially for the parents, those who are in the thick of it right now, give us the wisdom that we need each and every day to raise up our children in the way that they should go, to be attentive and not to get lazy, especially we've done this for many years, but there's still many more years left.

[55:35] We want to continue on and be faithful through to the very end so that we can see our children successful in life and knowing you and all those good things. Give us the grace that we need to be wise in life.

[55:49] In Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen. Amen.