Dealing with Issues Accompaning Human Fallenness

[0:00] Well, we are going to, at the beginning of the new year, briefly run through a couple of these questions that you have submitted or suggestions for future study. And I want you to be thinking about them, and maybe you can talk among yourselves regarding them.

[0:15] This has to do with the study of Revelation, and that is a possibility. And this other, maybe we'll take this this morning, but it won't be the study of Revelation, but they've got another question along with it, and I'll reserve that for a little later.

[0:31] Old Testament prophecies on the first coming of Christ or the second coming of Christ. And the commandments of Jesus, the books of John.

[0:43] I take it they're talking about the epistles, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd John. And here's one for the Gospel of John. Paul's prophecies. I don't know what particular they had in mind there.

[0:56] There's a lot of them. The demon possession in America. Prophecy in the grace period. John. David questioned, Is there a place between death and heaven to be before judgment, or do believers go straight to heaven to wait?

[1:16] Have men give testimony like we did a few years ago? Allow for discussion among members. We can learn from each other.

[1:30] Suggested study on one man, Nicodemus, or the twelve disciples. How do we as men deal with the anti-male white hatred issue that is permeating the country?

[1:47] How to be more forgiving? Did Nicodemus, when he was born again, get eternal life or entry into the kingdom? Book of Hebrews. Hebrews.

[1:57] We took Hebrews just a couple of years ago, verse by verse, remember? I'd be reluctant to go through that again now. And the study of Revelation. But the one that I've selected, and I would appreciate some input from you on too.

[2:13] And this is a gut-wrenching issue. I mean, it is, this thing has already torn churches apart.

[2:25] And it is tearing the nation apart as well. Should we have forbearance with the LGBT people in our denomination?

[2:40] Or leave? That is an issue that is as old as the book of Genesis.

[2:53] And it goes all the way back to Sodom and Gomorrah and Lot and what he encountered there. And the judgment and ruination that was brought upon that area and the reason for which it was.

[3:07] We do not have all of the answers regarding human sexuality. We have what is set forth as a biblical standard.

[3:19] And I want to just pose a couple of things for your consideration and then we'll be glad to open for comments that you may have too. I do not think that there is any question that there is something about homosexuality and lesbianism that is ingrained in the human psyche that I cannot explain other than it being a part of our fallenness.

[3:54] We are an impaired race of humans. I trust you understand that. And anybody who doubts it need only wait until that time comes for their demise and there is a thing called death, physical death that proves positive we are an impaired humanity.

[4:21] We are not going to live forever even though that was apparently the original intent but something happened that we call the fall that resulted in a short circuiting of the lifespan that God gave to Adam and to Eve.

[4:42] And yes, I have absolutely no doubt at all none whatever that the 930 years that Adam lived were actual 365 day years.

[4:55] But you've got to understand everything was different then. Everything. And as a result, as you go on through the Bible and Genesis and get further on into the Old Testament you see the human lifespan that began with the ultimate 969 with the Thutmethusaleh you see it declining.

[5:16] rapidly declining until you get to the place of where it is stated that the average lifespan of a human being is 3 score and 10. 70 years!

[5:28] That's a whole heap different from 930. And what is taking place there is the natural degradation of humanity and the problems that we have and we are all, as I said, we are all impaired in different ways and part of that impairment has to do with the physical difficulties that we are born with.

[5:55] Some people are born with the propensity for a liver condition, a heart condition, multiple sclerosis, you name it.

[6:07] There are a whole host of things like that. That medical science has never been able to overcome. All we can do is treat it. We don't care very much. We treat everything. We don't care much.

[6:17] And that's proof positive to me, at least on the physical plane, that we are impaired physically so that we start dying when we're born.

[6:30] Got that? It's the truth. And we just need to deal with it. But there is something that is taking place also in the human psyche of our being that is not physical or material.

[6:43] We call it spiritual. And it doesn't necessarily mean that it has something to do with God. It just means that it is immaterial. Understand, guys, we have an immateriality about us as well as a materiality.

[7:02] And that immateriality is called the human spirit. And that's the part of us that when we die physically, the human spirit exits the body.

[7:16] And in case of believers, goes to be with the Lord. And we've got a little verse in James chapter 4, I think, that says, kind of sums it up. It says, the body without the spirit is dead.

[7:32] And this is, I think, what Jesus was talking about when He screamed out from the cross, Father, into Thy hands I commit my spirit. And the text says, and He bowed His head and gave up.

[7:47] King James says, gave up the ghost. He gave up the spirit, that immaterial part of His being. So what I am saying is, in addition to our having flawed bodies that are subject to disease and physical death, we also have a flawed human spirit that is immaterial, that is where, for lack of a better term, that is where the sin factor and the thing we call the flesh, and this is a little deceiving because we tend to think of the flesh as blood tissue and bone and stuff like that.

[8:27] But when the Bible uses the word flesh, it also refers to man in his more base existence. It is that part of our being that is self-willed.

[8:40] It is that part of our being that has fallen spiritually. And it is that part of our being that when you come to faith in Jesus Christ is regenerated.

[8:52] That's the part of you that is saved. It isn't your body. That's later. But it is immediate. That is your human spirit. It is regenerated and made new.

[9:03] Not in a sense that it is at all without any impairment or without sin, but that you have a new capacity, a new ability.

[9:17] Let me put it this way, and I'll cut to this as quickly as I can. A.W. Tozer put it this way. He said, It is not that the regenerated man, the man in Christ, it is not that he is unable to sin.

[9:31] We all know better than that, don't we? But it does mean that he is given the facility and the power of God in regeneration that he need not sin.

[9:44] He doesn't have to sin. He still can. And we still do. Because we get angry and we get deceitful and we get all kinds of things sometimes that demonstrates we are behaving in a way that is contrary to what we say we are.

[9:59] And that is too part of our nature. So, in our essential being, there are areas of weakness, some of which are probably transmitted from one generation to the next.

[10:19] And we have no doubt, we have no doubt, that physical capabilities and physical characteristics are transmitted from one generation to the next.

[10:37] So that so and so is the spitting image of his father or she looks just like her mother and whatnot. And that accounts for the physical. But what I'm suggesting, and I can't verify this, I don't have a chapter and verse for it, but I am suggesting that that there may also, and I say may because I don't really know, there may also be some kind of exotic transmission in our immaterial being that is put upon the next generation.

[11:15] Now, of course, this presents a great problem. We can account for physical characteristics transmitted from one generation to another because we have learned so very much about genetics.

[11:33] And there is a physicality involved, you've got something to look at under a microscope and you can see it, there it is. But you don't have that with the spiritual.

[11:45] Because it's immaterial. You can't weigh it, you can't evaluate it, you can't see it under a microscope. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. So, all I'm suggesting, and I just want you to know, this is just a, Marv isn't saying this is the way it is, because I don't know.

[12:03] But I am suggesting there may be a bridge, there may be a connection whereby one generation can transmit to the next generation not only physical properties, but something that is non-physical as well.

[12:17] Now, how in the world would that happen? I have no idea. I have no idea. So that's why I'm not saying that it does. I don't know, but I have a suspicion. So, the emotional and mental and non-physical characteristics of one generation are possibly transmitted to the next generation.

[12:39] so, for whatever it's worth, that could include a propensity for same-sex attraction.

[12:52] I'm not saying it does, I'm saying I wonder. I know there's a host of people and I've talked with some. I've talked with some men over the years, homosexuals, who have told me, do you think I want to be like this?

[13:12] Do you think I want to have these desires? I don't. I can't deny that I do, but I don't want to. And yeah, I know that it's wrong and I know what the Bible says about it and I can't explain why I feel this way, but all I can say is I've been born like this.

[13:33] Now, most who are on the other side say hogwash. Nobody's born that way. All I'm saying, guys, is don't be so sure.

[13:45] There's things we just don't know, just don't understand. And I'm suggesting that in our impairment, in our fallenness, the fall was complete.

[13:59] It was entire. We didn't fall a little bit. As the bottom fell out is what happened. And it takes its toll physically and mentally.

[14:12] I lived with this for 30 years with a precious little girl who died at the age of 30. and mentally she was about five years old.

[14:28] And you never saw or knew a sweeter child in the world, but she just had severe learning difficulties and that was the way that it was.

[14:38] so, so, with this issue of homosexuality, I am not at all suggesting that we agree with it any more than I'm suggesting that we agree with multiple sclerosis or anything else like that.

[14:56] we want to do what we can to treat it and it is a very, very difficult problem. The saying that goes around today is among the gay community is why should God care whom I love?

[15:11] Well, he cares very much and fellas there is a big difference, let me put this out too because I don't want to be misunderstood here, I'm not validating this at all, but I am saying that there is a big difference between having a desire for the same sex and a proclivity in that way and acting on it.

[15:37] There is a huge difference between the proclivity and the action and it is the action for which man is held responsible.

[15:51] You do not have control over your thoughts only to an extent you do. Is there anybody here who has ever caught themselves thinking some things you know very well you shouldn't even be thinking?

[16:07] Well then, why were you thinking them? because certain things suggested it or proposed it or reminded you of it and it just came in automatically and you find yourself saying where did that come from?

[16:20] Well, that's what we're all capable of. We're capable of some pretty nasty things but just thinking them does not do the deed it is acting it out that is the problem and that's where the complications and everything else comes in.

[16:39] So I wish I had more answers for this but I do know in connection with the question that was presented should we have forbearance with the LGBT people in our own denomination or leave and there are a couple of things to consider and the first that I think is very very telling and that ought to outweigh everything and that is what is our responsibility for our position before the Lord and there's no question to that in the beginning made them male and female and he made them with the intent of procreation and gave them the capacity to do that and both are needed in order to procreate and that is the pattern that is established and the the disfavor and the the the rejection that God has of homosexuality not of the homosexual person but of the homosexuality the deed and the act is quite clear in scripture and it is considered to be an abomination to the

[17:53] Lord let me give you just a little bit of background here and I want to open this up this happened a number of years ago and I'm suggesting the 1970s I can't give you I'm sorry I can't give you names and dates but I say you can google it okay it was a meeting that took place it was an official meeting that took place of the American Psychiatric Association Association these are not psychologists they are psychiatrists and a psychiatrist has to have an MD whereas a psychologist has to have advanced and additional training but he's not a medical doctor but a psychiatrist is and yet he specializes on on the brain and human behavior etc anyway they were having one of their meetings I think it was an annual meeting I'm not sure where it was and at this meeting there showed up uninvited a group of homosexual men activists who crashed that meeting and got the attention of those who were there and delivered before them a treatise requesting that they remove from their list of abnormal behavior homosexuality now these men these psychiatrists by the way in case you don't know what you probably do psychiatrists are considered to be the most knowledgeable intellectually gifted individuals on the planet in so far as understanding human behavior and dealing with it they are the go to guys for the authority never mind the fact that they completely disagree among themselves regarding a whole bunch of things we're talking about but they are still recognized as the authority and this really comes out in any court of law when they are called as an expert witness it's whatever the psychology thinks you know that's usually the psychiatry that's usually the way things go well anyway long story short before that meeting was over now this is a hard sell but it happened before that meeting was over these individuals who are supposed to be the epitome of rational thinking logical pursuit of information etc they actually agreed at that meeting to drop from their list of abnormal behaviors homosexuality and let me tell you the gay cause was off and running as a result of that and that was in the 1970s anybody that wants to go to your computer and google it and you can bring it up and it has been downhill on that issue ever since and today it is magnified in ways that we would not have even imagined

[21:21] I recall years ago years ago when this very first issue came up of same sex marriage and my first response is well thank god that will never come to pass that will never fly now they've gone too far don't have to worry about that taking off wrong again wrong again well my second thought was okay even though it's got some traction no way in the world that the world is going to go along with it wrong again you've got to understand the world is in lockstep with this kind of thing so that Romans 1 makes it very clear by the way they hate Romans 1 with a passion Romans 1 talks about so that they not only acknowledge and affirm that kind of behavior in others but even applaud it so what the gay community really wants is not merely acceptance don't get that idea it's not a live let live thing they're not satisfied with acceptance they demand affirmation and affirmation means that you are willing to say the homosexual lifestyle and the lesbian behavior is just as legitimate and normal as is the heterosexual nothing wrong with it at all that's what they want and they will not be satisfied until they get it and this is what the world is giving them and do you know why because the world is the world you are not you are out of step with the world you're supposed to be out of step with the world deal with it we are a minority always have been always will be my estimation it is a privileged minority simply to be in the position where we are but that presents real problems don't

[23:44] Jesus said if the world hates you don't be surprised it hated me before it hated you fellas don't look for a fair shake from the world the world does not have it to give you are on your own out here in this big fallen world so I want to go to a passage of scripture and see what Joe has to say I want to read this passage 1st Corinthians 6 and you got to understand what we're talking about now in the scriptures is a lifestyle that is consistent with someone who is in the world but not of the world we are all in the world we are not to be of the world that is an entirely different thing Paul says in 1st Corinthians 6 does any one of you when he has a case against his neighbor dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints in other words you should settle your differences between believers out of court rather than drag your brother in

[24:59] Christ into court and accuse them of this or that or whatever you're supposed to settle without a court or do you not know that the saints will judge the world and if the world is judged by you are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts do you not know that we shall judge angels I have no idea how that's going to come about but how much more matters of this life now we're going to just drop down here on and shorten this passage because I want to get right to the essence of the issue and that is beginning in beginning in verse 9 do you not know which is another way of saying you do know don't you he's assuming that you know this he's reminding them of what they know do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God do not be deceived which means don't kid yourself neither fornicators and a fornicator is someone who engages in illicit sexuality outside of marriage can be a male or a female makes no difference that's fornication and he goes on to say nor idolaters nor adulterers that of course is fornication with a married person or the person who is married nor effeminate that is men who are women like nor homosexuals nor thieves nor the covetous nor drunkards nor revilers nor swindlers shall inherit the kingdom these are all part and parcel of an impaired world these are impaired individuals and it is their acting out their impairment that identifies them with these particular titles and then he says and such were not are were such were some of you but and there is that conjunction of contrast again that suggests a radical reversal of something and what it is here is a radical reversal of a lifestyle but you were washed and this is this has got nothing to do with with water baptism of any kind whether you're pouring or sprinkling or whatever this is the washing of regeneration that Paul was talking about when he wrote to Titus and talked about the miracle of the washing of regeneration that provides for a new lifestyle and a new life in

[27:52] Christ and a regenerated nature and so on that's what he's talking about when he says you were spiritually cleansed and you were justified that means you were declared you were set apart you were sanctified you were set apart by God and you were justified or declared righteous by God in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and in the spirit of our God and then he goes on to talk about this individual who has conducted himself in such a way that he has brought reproach upon the church and this is where this issue comes in that this person is written about and this was submitted anonymously so here's the big problem that I have I'm torn but this is an issue of gut level difficulty because I cherish relationships and I cherish relationships that are established in a church among believers how that they love one another support one another etc and that's very very difficult to walk away from at the same time if you have in your congregation people who are engaging in this kind of lifestyle homosexuality lesbianism or whatever it is the difficulty

[29:19] I have in trying to maintain a loving relationship with them and with people in that situation is how how can you have your presence there and your participation there without giving the impression that you approve of what's taking place that you are sanctioning what is going on and who would not have the right to question well if they don't agree with it and if they're not willing to tolerate it why are they still here that's that's the issue and Paul's thing is to come out from among them and be you separate and don't be a partaker of them with that kind of lifestyle and fellas I don't need to tell you because I'm sure you're aware of it some of you may even be from we've got a host of different churches involved here and some of you may very well be from a church that has been impacted by this and it just has a way of tearing up a congregation and people choose up sides and all kinds of accusations are made there's a lot of bitterness a lot of anger a lot of accusation well where's your loving spirit you're supposed to love everybody and why can't you accept this and on and on it goes and it is a sticky wicked and it is not one that is about to be solved so now this is the end of the sayings of Marvin

[30:53] I want to hear what you have to say because you're going to solve this for us okay Joe what okay you mentioned about those homicesties coming to that psychologist thing and psychiatrist and saying we want to make it normal the homicesties is normal okay everybody here is told a lie everybody here is told a lie so lying is normal then based on lying is normal because everybody here lies but it's a sin the same as homosexually is a sin they're both sins so are you any better than the homosexual because you all lie the problem is promoting that lie you won't promote lie I won't promote lies I lie you lie but you won't say it's a good thing that it's not sin you won't say that God doesn't like it so the homosexual it is normal but it's a sin and it shouldn't be promoted they want it promoted and that's the wrong thing is promoting a sin we don't promote lying but we're all normal liars we all lie in that sense we're normal just like homosexuals do homosexual things that's normal for them we lie that's normal for us but you do not promote it even though it's wrong okay

[32:22] Joe is saying that that in the same way that it would be wrong or unaccepted to promote lying or stealing or trying to say that's okay in the same way it would be just as wrong to promote homosexuality and say that's okay yet that's what they want it is it is the seeking after the legitimizing of it that they don't they don't want to be looked upon as odd or different or abnormal and I can understand who does who does so this is part and parcel of what we're dealing with and it is like I said it is it's it's a gut wrenching issue because I've sat across from the desk of people who have just wept men wept for the way they felt and for what they wanted to pursue and to say that well all you have to do is just clean up your act well yeah that's easy for somebody that doesn't have that problem to say something like that so what I'm saying is

[33:39] God God forbid that we legitimize it I'm certainly not advocating that at all and I don't see any biblical way that we can in any wise support it at the same time we need to understand that sin is sin and while there is well let me put it this way to say that there is no distinction between sin and all sin is sin doesn't cut it either because this is something this is something that the scriptures call repeatedly and that God calls repeatedly an abomination now that means that means there's some kind of an extra dimension given to that isn't given to your ordinary everyday lying and stealing and

[34:41] I wish I could give you better insight but what Joe has shared certainly helps anybody else with some thoughts or ideas yeah I was wondering why Abraham bargained with the angels to save Solomon the more he said he got down to ten people that found ten people that would serve the Lord he wouldn't destroy it it was only three four people came out and his wife looked back yeah and Abraham must have known that it was bad because he was bargaining with the angel well that that that that that certainly seems to be inferred in the text all the way through and you know the gay community they've they've tried to massage this genesis thing and say well you know what the people of Sodom what their real problem was they were inhospitable they they didn't want to give lodging to these people and

[35:45] God judged them for that well that's complete nonsense you know that won't that won't fly the text the text all the way through makes it very very clear and to just recount briefly the Lord sent two angels they are called destroying angels and they surface earlier in Genesis 15 when Abraham was there and by the way the three men that approached Abraham as he was there in his tent in the cool of the day and he turned and gave his wife Sarah we've got company put on a meal and the three men two of them were angels and one of them was a pre-incarnate Christ one of them was the Lord of glory think of that and he is the one that communicates with Abraham and Abraham doesn't know who he's talking to these are three strangers and

[36:48] Abraham is clued in somewhat by the Lord himself and he enters into that bargaining thing about destroying Sodom and Gomorrah and all Abraham can think of is that's where Lot is where my nephew is I don't want him you know so he bargains with the Lord and they get down to ten and and the Lord says if there are ten there I'll spare the whole city well you know the story there were what there were three well two what Abraham I mean Lot and his wife and she was spared and the angels left the presence of the Lord and Abraham and went to Sodom and Gomorrah and when they got there they were they were prepared to sleep in the street these are original homeless people these angels and they were prevailed upon by

[37:50] Lot to come in and join him in his home he was going to put them up for the night and feed them and no sooner were they in the house than the men of the community began gathering because they heard that there was new flesh in town and they tried to approach them and they wanted sexual interaction with those men and that's exactly what they were after and the text doesn't doesn't sweeten it any it's there in all of its ugliness and you can read the story in the account there in Genesis but this was the beginning of Sodom and by the way the name Sodomy comes from that and I don't know if you are aware of it or not but there was a historic case that developed in Texas a few years ago whereby the sin or the crime of

[38:53] Sodomy was erased from the books and fellas as time goes on you can expect more and more lawlessness and I think I'm not a prophet nor the son of a prophet but I think what is going to happen is that this lawlessness is going to abound you see this smash and grab stuff that's going on in some of the larger cities where they are looting places and just carrying out arm loads of loot and nobody's stopping them and the police authorities aren't stopping them and this is running rampant there's more and more shootings more and more killings and I get the impression that what is going to happen is eventually going to destabilize not that it isn't somewhat already destabilize our nation and make it so chaotic and questionable and dangerous to live here people are going to cry out for some kind of order and guess who is going to step in and bring it yeah the one who will have the promise of safety and deliverance and order and all the rest

[40:18] I'll vote for him and I don't know that it's going to be just like Joe says but I'm saying that right now guys the nation is on a downward path you have to be blind if you don't see that you've got to be looking at something else yeah and we just don't know whether this is we don't know whether this is the beginning of the end or the beginning of the beginning of the end but we know that something is coming and it's not very pretty did I see a hand somewhere yes it seems like from a biblical standpoint you referenced 1st corinthians 6 genesis romans 1 that homosexuality or just sexual immorality as a whole is evidence of the last stages of society's decay but I have a question with the question so when it comes to forbearance of lawbreakers the unrighteous homosexuals in the church where does the local body of Christ draw the line I would think it certainly draws the line of politics or anybody in authority in the middle of the church but how about the presence of a homosexual in the congregation right so I think that goes to

[41:29] Joe's thought that hey everybody has a divine not right but the opportunity to have a big sense of grace yeah I have absolutely no objection at all and I'm confident scripture has no objection at all of confirmed homosexuals in the congregation think about that it is the activity of that lifestyle that we cannot tolerate and we cannot you know we cannot look the other way but for someone who is a non practicing homosexual homosexual they can they can be as normal in other ways as anybody else and they can be as subject to taking in the word of God and living it out it's just that they've got that one particular thing about them and it's the same kind of situation in some respects at least not exactly the same but there's a parallel here between someone who is a recovered drug addict or kleptomania somebody who you know has this thing about stealing and I've known people and I'm sure you probably do too of people who have dried out from drugs maybe two or three times before they finally get clean and the same way with alcohol it is the use of and the imbibing in and the activity in that is the sin and so far as welcoming a non practicing homosexual if a church will not do that shame on them shame on them because a non practicing homosexual is just as welcome or should be just as welcome in a church as a non practicing thief or a non practicing adulterer or whatever but we do tend let's face it we do tend to stigmatize certain crimes more than others and we'll not accept this but we'll accept that and so on

[43:39] Rick he absolutely absolutely and that's what the homosexuals look right there yeah yeah yeah you're so they're distorting they're distorting because David loved Jonathan or Jonathan loved him they did like brothers absolutely absolutely or whatever excellent point but they distorted that to the point they're trying to make it something it wasn't I'm glad you brought that up Rick because that is one of their favorites David and Jonathan thing they just impose homosexuality on them and assume that that but you know what somebody who lives that style you've got that in your mind you look at that and you think aha here's somebody that here's somebody that

[44:43] Christians idolize and look what they were doing they were doing that weren't they they were homosexuals they loved each other and they like you said they read into that and that's good enough for them and you know what much of the public that they put that on say well I guess you got a point there they'll buy it too they'll buy it too it's amazing Don well I'm a Methodist and if we had our meeting with the world world Methodism we would have split already and it is splitting Methodism right down the middle and not only Methodism it's splitting a lot of other churches too and it's it's it's taking a devastating toll on the body of Christ Dan was it false second trip to Corinth when you found that the church was affirming and practicing homosexuality and all the other apotheos actions people think about it it would be churches that specialize in this and that yeah false church when we went back they still have the the carbon spunker cage walls of pornography and everything else yeah and that's boy that's another issue and I'll tell you guys this thing is just getting so ugly what is happening on the southern border and the the human abuse that is taking place there of both women and children is just sickening

[46:20] I mean it's just absolutely sickening and these are people I've got mixed feelings about about these immigrants I I say Amar if you're coming from where some of those people were coming from and living the way that they lived and everything and you got word that you could get into America what would you yeah yeah boy I'd pack my old kit bag and take off for the US of A and yet at the same time you know there is the illegality of the we are a nation of immigrants do you realize guys do you realize that before this thing ever started in the southern border you realize that the United States of America has for the last several years welcomed legally legally a million immigrants into the United States each year we've increased our population legally by a million immigrants and who knows how many more have applied for legal immigration that have never been processed or never made it and it's kind of like thumbing your nose at all of them who are trying to do it legally because all you have to do is get to the southern border and walk across the

[47:40] Rio Grande boy what a yes a church that I was a member of we had a young man that felt called to go into the ministry and he went to seminary and while he was there got involved in a homosexual relationship and knew that it was wrong came back rejected all of that and this was at the height of the AIDS thing he contracted AIDS and even though he had rejected that lifestyle and knew that what he had done was wrong he died and we we loved that guy and his mom and dad were so devastated by how homosexuals were treated that they wouldn't allow him to have his funeral in our church they went to a

[48:47] Methodist church yeah yeah yeah you see the stress and the complexities that are involved in these kind of situations and I just keep coming back to this same expression it's just gut wrenching it is so sad and so difficult and there is something within us that that that causes extreme anger to rise up and at the same time there is a need for compassion at the same time and it is complex and I'll tell you what we're talking about what we're talking about is the complexity of human sin and fellas never lose sight of the fact that the Bible says so much about sin and how much God hates sin and he does just for one reason he hates sin because he loves people and he knows what sin does to devastate the people that he loves sin is destructive and it ultimately kills and that's why God hates sin

[49:54] God's not a killjoy God doesn't want to rain on your parade God doesn't want to prevent you from having a good time he wants you to have the best and the most and the greatest thrill and the greatest run in your life that you could possibly have believe it or not one of the principal things God wants you to do with your salvation is enjoy it enjoy it God is not a killjoy hey the food is here I could never compete with the food so thank you Michelle for your great service once again and guys thanks for your input in this and have we solved anything not really not really maybe we've maybe we've I don't know maybe we've provided a little more to think about but we haven't solved anything but I appreciate your input it Do no no just nothing but especially until there's also people are�� people are thinking because of