The Jewish Final Solution to the World's Problem - Introduction to the Rapture - Concluding Remarks - Part 8

[0:00] Turn to 2 Corinthians chapter 5, and there we'll be reading the first ten verses of chapter 5, Paul's letter dealing with the rapture.

[0:24] For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

[0:41] For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven.

[0:51] Inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. For indeed while we are in this tent, we groan, being burdened, because we do not want to be unclothed, but to be clothed so that what is mortal will be swallowed up by life.

[1:17] Now he who prepared us for this very purpose is God, who gave to us the Spirit as a pledge.

[1:30] Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord.

[1:41] For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.

[1:56] Therefore, we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him.

[2:06] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

[2:24] Thank you, Gary. Well, you can always tell what time of the year it is when Gary cannot resist talking a little bit about the bird migration.

[2:41] He's a, what do you call him, an ornithologist? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, the passage that we just shared is very frequently perhaps not thought of as being so much a rapture passage, but it is very definitely, and I think that will be established as we move on through the text.

[3:05] What this whole portion is talking about is the tremendous but real distinction between the physical and the spiritual. And when Paul talks about being clothed or unclothed, he's not at all talking about your wardrobe.

[3:21] He isn't talking about being embarrassed because you don't have the right kind of attire on. He's talking about whether or not you have a physical body. The clothing is the clothing that adorns the human spirit, and it is the body.

[3:41] Your spirit dwells in your body. It is a mortal body, and it is a body that is subject to corruption. But the new body that we are going to receive at the rapture is a glorified body, and it will clothe your human spirit in a way that it has never been clothed before.

[4:05] You will then be a finished product. This is a fabulous passage. I know I feel that way about every passage, but if I didn't, I have no business preaching on it, I guess.

[4:16] So whatever we're dealing with is just marvelous. I want you to, however, go back with me a few verses to chapter 4 so we can set the stage a little more fully than we might if we just jump in.

[4:31] Because actually, we've got another one of those pesky, unfortunate chapter divisions that I've pointed out to you so many times over the years. There is nothing inspired by the numbers of the verses.

[4:45] There is nothing inspired of God by the chapter divisions. They were not originally written that way. The letter was written as one continuous document, just like you would write a letter to someone.

[4:58] But it came along sometime later, hundreds of years. In fact, only within the last five or six hundred years that the Bible was even broken down into chapters and verses.

[5:12] And it is a great aid and tool for being able to locate various passages of Scripture. But from the standpoint of studying, it can be a hindrance.

[5:25] Because very often, the continuity that has been established by the writer is disrupted when you end the chapter. Because people tend to think that the chapter ends and that's where the subject ends.

[5:39] And sometimes it's just getting warmed up. And you really need to go on further. And that's the case here. So I want to look back, if we may, at verse 7. We've got to jump in someplace.

[5:49] I can't go all the way back to the beginning. But verse 7 of chapter 4, where the apostle says, We have this treasure. And the treasure of which he is speaking is, of course, the gospel of verse 3.

[6:05] He says, Even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perished. That's the treasure that he's talking about. It is a priceless treasure. Because it is earth's most urgent, important message that Christ died for our sins.

[6:21] That's the good news. That's the gospel. And that's the treasure that he is speaking of. And in verse 7, he says, We have this treasure, this gospel, in earthen vessels.

[6:33] That is, in these human bodies of ours. Your body is a vessel. It is a container. And it has within it everything that has been deposited in your body physically, and everything that has been deposited in your human spirit.

[6:52] And you are a vessel or a container for all that you have received over all the years. And he says, We have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the surpassing greatness of the power may be of God and not from ourselves.

[7:09] We are afflicted in every way. Now, he's talking about physical affliction. Paul took a lot of bumps and bruises, a lot of punishment, a lot of scourgings, a lot of deprivations, a lot of starvation, everything that you can imagine that could be inflicted upon a human body, he experienced.

[7:31] And he says, We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed. Perplexed, but not despairing. Persecuted, but not forsaken.

[7:43] Persecuted, but not destroyed. Always carrying about in the body, that is the physical body, the dying of Jesus, that is the truth of the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.

[8:02] Because it is your body that you use to manifest the claims of Christ. And your body is used through your tongue and your mind and your gestures and your eyes and everything.

[8:19] You use your body to communicate information. And this is what Paul is talking about here. For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus' sake.

[8:33] Now, this is nothing more than saying, hey, it's a hostile environment out there. It is a fallen world. And people who make up a fallen world can often treat each other in a very, very ugly manner.

[8:48] And who of us doesn't know the truth of that? So, death works in us.

[9:00] Now, he's talking about contrasting. In fact, this whole passage here is talking about contrasting and defining the distinction between the physical and the spiritual.

[9:15] And we're really going to get into this when we get here into chapter five in just a few moments, I hope. And we will be able, I think, to see the utter importance, the critical nature of both of these entities, the physical and the spiritual.

[9:31] And sometimes believers can put so much emphasis on the spiritual that they ignore the physical.

[9:43] And you ought not to do that. But we must realize that God is very much committed to the physical and the physical body.

[9:54] And this is one reason why the bodily, physical resurrection of Jesus Christ from the grave is such an enormous issue. You are not complete without your body.

[10:08] And this is what Paul is going to be getting to. This idea of being unclothed. And when you are unclothed, you don't have a body.

[10:20] You are a disembodied spirit. And that's something that Paul was not looking forward to. In fact, he hoped to avoid that because the rapture will make that concept unnecessary and unworkable.

[10:40] Because in the twinkling of an eye, these bodies will be changed in an instant. And it will be a body fashion like unto the body of Christ.

[10:51] That's set to rapture. And the text, I think, will make it quite clear. That's what Paul was looking for and longing for and expecting in his lifetime. 2,000 years have passed and there's still been no rapture.

[11:07] So what is he all this time? He's a disembodied spirit. When Paul was executed there among that little clump of trees outside the city of Rome, when he put his neck down on a chopping block and a Roman soldier severed his head from his body, Paul became a disembodied spirit, absent from the body, present with the Lord.

[11:45] That's not what he was looking for. Not what he was longing for. He was looking and longing for the rapture. That was his preference.

[11:57] Nevertheless, in either case, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Now, I'm going to throw a wrinkle in here that will just give you something to think about in the back of your mind, and I hope to be able to get to it before we conclude this.

[12:13] So Paul has been in heaven, in the presence of Christ, along with who knows how many millions of other believers, for 2,000 years as a disembodied spirit.

[12:28] Yes and no. What kind of double talk is that? That's what I want to put you in the back of your mind, and you'll be thinking about that.

[12:42] Okay, we'll get there. But I must hurry along or we won't make it. So, death works in us, and here he's talking about physical death. Physical death works in us.

[12:55] That's because of what he said in verse 8. We are afflicted in every way, crushed, perplexed, not despairing, persecuted, and all the rest. In other words, all of these things that are coming upon me.

[13:08] And by the way, this is not a complaint. This is just a statement of fact. Paul isn't boo-hooing anything. He's just saying it the way it is.

[13:20] And he's saying, you know, I face death daily. That's okay. I'm not complaining. But there isn't hardly a day goes by but what my life isn't threatened, deprived, or persecuted in some way.

[13:36] So, death is working in me, and working on me, and hanging over me. And there are a lot of people that would just like to end my life. And this is, I think, what Paul meant in another phrase in 1 Corinthians, I think it was, and he said, I die daily.

[13:53] I face death on an ongoing basis. But, life, life is working in you. And he's talking about spiritual life.

[14:06] He's talking about the message that he has been bringing to the Corinthians that enlightens them, that gives them spiritual life. In other words, Paul is paying a physical price to be able to extend spiritual life to those recipients.

[14:25] And whenever and wherever believers are living in a culture of persecution, if they dare open their mouth to share the gospel, they are taking their life into their own hands.

[14:38] So, there is another case, modern day, and I'm sure this is going on today in several parts of the world, where people are jeopardizing their own life to impart spiritual life to others.

[14:49] This is what I think he's talking about. But having the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, I believed, therefore I spoke. In other words, how can I do otherwise?

[15:02] Knowing that he who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and will present us with you. So, bottom line here is death is not that big a deal.

[15:19] Don't get all wrapped up in that to the point where you think that all that matters is that you stay alive. No. That isn't all that matters.

[15:30] In fact, that isn't the most that matters. The most that matters is that we be servants of our Lord, whether by life or by death. That's what matters.

[15:43] Years ago, someone wrote a letter to one of the church fathers. I don't know if it was St. John Chrysostom or what, but he had written them about their willingness to condescend and lapse into the making and the selling of idols like Paul is talking about in the book of Acts and those who made the silver statues of Diana and so on.

[16:08] And he was taking them to task for being a part of that and falling in with the crowd because they professed Christ and yet they were engaging in this idolatry and the making of the silver amulets and everything.

[16:21] And they wrote back their defense of his criticism of them. And their defense was, sounds so typical of today, well, after all, we have to live.

[16:37] That was the rationale. After all, how can we do otherwise than what we're doing? We have to live. And his response to them was, must you live?

[16:50] Must you live? Now that's the right perspective. But you'll generally search far and wide to find anyone today who holds it.

[17:07] That's what it means to live for Christ. Must you live? For all things, or for your sakes, that the grace which is spreading to more and more people, oh, this is wonderful, may cause, and this grace was spreading because there were those who were willing to pay the price to spread it.

[17:29] And if it's worth anything, it's worth paying the price. More and more people may cause the giving of thanks to abound to the glory of God.

[17:44] Therefore, we do not lose heart. Oh, you've got to love that. We do not lose heart. But though our outer man is decaying, what's he talking about here?

[17:58] What is the outer man? It's this body of flesh. It's my skin and bones and organs and all the rest. That's this body of flesh. That is our outer man.

[18:10] As opposed to the inner man, the inner man is that spiritual self that is immaterial and intangible that dwells in your body.

[18:22] That's the inner man. And he says, our inner man is being renewed day by day. And what does the inner man thrive on? What does the spirit thrive on?

[18:34] Spirit thrives on spiritual information. The spirit strives and thrives on spiritual food. The intake of truth, the intake of the word of God and the truth of God is that which inspires and edifies and builds up and instructs the real you on the inside.

[18:55] That's where you are edified or built up. It is in your spiritual inner man, not in your flesh, but in that immaterial self. That's where you grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.

[19:09] And that is being renewed day by day. And then he says, for momentary light affliction. Think of that. The guy who is a victim of perpetual persecution, of misunderstanding, of vilification, of starvation, of imprisonments, of stonings, and of beatings, and he calls them light afflictions?

[19:37] Are you kidding me? Light afflictions? is producing for us an eternal weight of glory.

[19:51] Look at the contrast here. Momentary, just for the present, just for the present, momentary is compared with eternal.

[20:03] Now, in reality, there is no comparison because that which is eternal so greatly outweighs and overrides that which is temporary. Momentary.

[20:15] Momentary light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight. And the weight is contrasted with the light. We get all kinds of food items now that have the name on light and it's usually spelled L-I-T-E.

[20:33] You can get everything from light beer to light bread to light this and light that. Have you ever seen an advertisement for heavy bread or heavy beer?

[20:49] Nobody wants anything to do with that stuff. We will bring on the light. You know, we've got enough problems with the heavy. But here is the contrast. An eternal weight of glory and the glory is contrasted with the affliction.

[21:03] It is just about as opposite of affliction as you can get. Far beyond all comparison. Not just beyond comparison. Not just all comparison.

[21:14] But beyond all comparison. While we look not at the things which are seen but at the things which are not seen.

[21:25] Now, how in the world do you look at something that is not seen? If it is not seen, how do you look at it? Again, he's talking about a spiritual reality.

[21:39] That which is spiritual is not subject to the eyes, to the touch. It is real and it is true but it is not seen.

[21:51] That's the things that we look at. This is what he was talking about when he wrote to the Colossians. since you be risen with Christ seek those things which are above where Christ sits at the right hand of God and be not for the things which are seen are temporal but the things which are not seen are eternal.

[22:14] those are spiritual truths and they never age. They never go out of style. Spiritual truths is God's truth and it is eternal and it is contrasted with that which is temporal.

[22:27] Sometimes Christians have been known to be accused of being so heavenly minded that they are no earthly good and I think it was old Vance Habner who said the problem with most Christians is that they're so earthly minded that they're no heavenly good.

[22:46] I suspect we suffer more from the latter than from the former. The things which are not seen are eternal for we know and I love his positive emphasis here.

[22:58] He's not saying you know I have a hunch that it might be this way or I have my suspicions or do you suppose it might no no no no none of that. This is for we know.

[23:09] This is this is a certainty. It isn't a maybe. It isn't a hunch or a prayer or a hope. This is for we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down what is that earthly tent?

[23:26] It's your body and it is referred to as a tent because a tent automatically conveys the idea of a temporary residence.

[23:39] Nobody plans to live forever in a tent. Well maybe unless you're like a Bedouin like Abraham who was a tent dweller thousands of years ago but ordinarily we would say normal people don't plan to live in a tent.

[23:51] You go out camping for a week or a couple of weeks I remember we used to go out on bivouac when I was stationed in Alaska for a couple of years and of course they would pick the rottenest meanest times of the winter.

[24:04] We'd go out there in the little two-man tents and colder than billy blue blazes like 35-40 below and you had to get that sleeping bag out and you excuse me you had to you had to put your boots in your sleeping bag with you or you'd never be able to get them on in the morning.

[24:25] They'd be just frozen stiff and we were so glad a barracks a wooden barracks never looked so good and a hot shower never felt so good after spending two weeks in bivouac out in those miserable tents and man if there was anything that was ever designed to be temporary they were it and that's what Paul's talking about he's talking about your body as you age you begin to appreciate that your body is more and more temporary and less and less permanent when you are full of vim and vigor and at your virility and in your twenties and thirties and of course if you're a teenager you feel like you're absolutely indestructible but when the years set on you start realizing that you know this body's got a few weaknesses to it and the longer you live the more the weaknesses show up that's just par for the course that is this earthly house and if it is torn down and the word here is literally it comes from the expression of falling apart and sometimes that's the way you feel when the arthritis sets in and you need replacement joints and hospitalizations and all this you kind of feel like you're falling apart you know what you are you are falling apart but it's okay because that's part of the aging process we have a building and the building is contrasted with the tent the building speaks of permanence tent speaks of temporary that's why this world is not our home we're just passing through our treasures are laid up somewhere beyond the blue we are not permanent residents of this earth we are temporary residents and this is the point that Paul is making here he says we have a building from God what is that building that's your glorified body that God is going to provide you with the same way he provided it for Jesus Christ when he came out of that tomb it is a corruptible body that will put on incorruption it is a mortal body that will put on immortality that's the building of

[26:55] God not made with hands he's not talking about a physical structure that you build with hands it is eternal in the heavens for indeed in this house that is in this present body we groan especially about 530 in the morning when it's time to roll out you may roll out with a groan if you haven't groaned yet you just you just be patient your groanings are coming they'll be along that too is legitimate and that's part of it we groan longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven that's nothing more than saying and recognizing I am going to be delighted to trade in this old racked and ruined body this body of humiliation this body of weakness this body of deprivation this body of limitation I'm going to be so glad to turn this thing in for the new model that's going to be like the body of Christ and this is what

[28:04] Paul's talking about when he writes to the Philippians that God is going to fashion our bodies like unto the body of Christ the end of chapter three of Philippians longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven and I am confident that the apostle Paul was speaking of this as a personal kind of testimony this is what he longed for it's what he looked for it's what he waited for the coming of Christ then he would be clothed with our dwelling from heaven in as much as we having put it on that is putting on this new body and this word clothed here by the way means to put literally means in the Greek it's a double compound word and it literally means to put one piece of clothing on top of another so as to not experience any time of being unclothed now that's an interesting expression because what he's going to do here is he's going to be unclothed

[29:15] Paul is going to be naked that means his spirit is going to go one way to be with the Lord his body is going to go the other way his soul is going to be disrupted part of his soul is going to go to heaven and part of his soul the body is going to go to the ground and he's going to be without a body he's going to be a bodiless spirit and the only way that that will not be realized is if the rapture occurs and this body is immediately displaced like that with that resurrected body then there will not be any time that you experience nakedness you will be perpetually clothed and the meaning here in the Greek is for one garment to be put on top of another garment so as to not have any distance or space in between it just becomes from one thing to another and the disembodied spirit aspect will never be experienced that's going to be part and parcel of the way it will be for everyone when the rapture takes place but for those who have already died and gone on they are disembodied spirits what does a disembodied spirit look like it doesn't look like anything because you can't see it it isn't subject to your eyes it is immaterial well how much space does it occupy it doesn't occupy any space space because that which is immaterial doesn't occupy space time and space are creations that God made in

[31:13] Genesis to accommodate physicality physicality needs time and space but spirituality doesn't this is what the scriptures mean when Jesus said God is spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth God doesn't occupy any space and he doesn't occupy time those are both creations that God used to accommodate the creation of materiality including human beings and the planet and stars and sun and earth and everything else all of those things need time and space so they are direct creations of God but that which is spirit does not and this also ties in with what Jesus said about man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of

[32:15] God and all he is saying there is reinforcing the idea that man has needs that go beyond his physical needs he needs something more than just bread physical bread to put in his body he needs spiritual bread to satisfy his spiritual being and this is true of everyone every person has a human spirit even if one is an atheist he has a human spirit and this has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit that's entirely different when a person is a believer when you receive Jesus Christ as your savior the spirit of God immaterial comes in to your life and his spirit bears witness with your spirit not your body but your spirit that you are a child of God and this is all spiritual information the world has very little use for this concept because they think in terms of everything being physical and so does the scientific community and a great many of those of the scientific ilk will not even acknowledge the reality of the spiritual because they are persuaded that if something is not measurable or cannot be analyzed in a laboratory it doesn't have objective existence at all and this is what has led some of our most modern brain scientists to conclude that and this is not a joke this is for real that you do not possess a mind you only think you have a mind you don't have a mind you have a brain but you don't have a mind the brain is responsible for everything that is immaterial just as it is for that which is material and of course the Christian position is completely contrary to that because the Bible makes it very clear and by the way are you aware of the fact that the

[34:19] Bible frequently uses the word mind never uses the word brain that's really significant now nobody is depreciating the brain it is an absolutely incredible wonderful construct that God has put together in the human brain but you have a mind also you have an immaterial part that works with the material brain and we don't understand how they work together and we don't understand what the connecting link is because how do you connect something that is immaterial to something that is material I have no idea if I did I'd apply for a Nobel Prize and probably get one well look at the text we do not want to be unclothed but to be clothed in order that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life now he who prepared us for this very purpose is God who gave us the spirit as a pledge now this is not the human spirit and here in my new

[35:25] American standard it is capitalized which I think is correct although it wasn't in the original text but the spirit here in verse five is the holy spirit and the holy spirit is our down payment he is the earnest that God has given us which is his guarantee that he will complete that which he has begun in us and he has given us the earnest of the spirit or the down payment as a pledge that means as a promise that he will follow through with what he started that's the basis of a pledge therefore being always of good courage and knowing that while we are at home in the body that is as we are now presently living in these physical bodies we are absent from the Lord and we are I know Jesus said he would be with us and he would never leave us nor forsake us but in the totality of our personhood we are not present with the

[36:26] Lord we are present to each other and we are right here and the Lord is with us spiritually and we are with him spiritually but we're not with him physically and that's what he's that's the point that he's making for we walk by faith not by sight and that deserves more elaboration than I've time to give it we are of good courage I say and prefer and I think Paul is stating a personal preference here and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord therefore also we have as our ambition whether at home or absent to be pleasing to him and that's the thing that really matters you know whether you're in this body or whether you're a disembodied spirit the main thing is that you're pleasing to the Lord and that's what really matters and that's what he's talking about here when he says there's a time of accountability for we must all appear before the judgment seat of

[37:31] Christ that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body according to what he has done whether good or bad that means whether they are worthless or worthwhile this sin has already been judged and dealt with by Jesus Christ at the cross and we are forgiven all trespasses in him but once we are believers there are works that we engage in that are either wood hay and stubble or gold silver and precious stones they are things that are worthwhile and are pleasing to the Lord for which there will be a reward and there are things that Christians can engage in that are just worthless and nonsensical and of no value and they will not be rewarded this all has to do with rewards or the loss of rewards has nothing to do with salvation salvation is already achieved and that's demonstrated just by the fact that you're there the award throne of

[38:38] Christ or the judgment seat of Christ is for believers only the great white throne judgment and revelation 19 is for unbelievers only two distinct categories and what Paul is talking about here has to do with whether or not he is going to be raptured or whether he is going to die and go to be with the Lord in the same way that Jesus dismissed his spirit when a believer dies whether he dismisses his spirit or not willingly or not the spirit real essence being of who and what you really are leaves the body vacates the body the spirit your spirit is the is the energizer of your body it is that which makes you alive as a person it is your spirit and that

[39:53] Genesis 2 7 passage that God breathed into Adam's nostrils the breath of life and Adam became a living soul he's now a total human being and you'll notice that I have been using the word spirit rather consistently as opposed to soul and I think this is where a lot of misunderstanding has occurred many use these terms interchangeably as though they are one and the same and I just don't see them that way at all I am convinced that you and I are a tripartrite being we are made up of an immaterial spirit and a material body and when you combine those two you get a soul the soul represents the totality of your being and as

[40:58] I've often said this means then that you do not have a soul you are a soul you are a soul that possesses an immaterial spirit and a material body and at death they're broken up the soul becomes disintegrated at death and the body goes one way and the spirit goes another way and it is James who tells us the body without the spirit is dead you see it is your spirit that animates your body this is what brought Adam to life when God breathed into his nostrils kind of sounds like CPR doesn't it what did God put into Adam God put into Adam the very essence of life and it seems to have come in breath or air or wind

[42:01] I don't think it's a coincidence that the word air wind spirit and breath are all translated with the same Greek word pneuma p n e u m a pneuma and it literally means air from which we get pneumatic tires or just tires with air in them pneumonia is a disease of the lungs that affects your air or your wind and all of those words are translated with that same one Greek word pneuma it's amazing when Jesus was on the cross and he cried out father into thy hands I dismiss my spirit my pneuma and Jesus breathed out and he didn't inhale again that was it life left him physical life left him he was dead and

[43:07] James tells us the body without the spirit is dead this is fascinating stuff some of you are aware that I've been doing some research on this spirit thing for the last couple of years and I've really got some enigmas that well maybe I'll maybe I'll use you as a sounding board and get some ideas we've already talked about this a little bit times past but I become just completely fascinated with it because there is so much here that is misunderstood and overlooked it's a fascinating thing so clothing referred to as the physical body and Paul is indicating his preference and anticipation for the rapture that's what he was longing for and looking for and if you look at the rapture as we think we should where it is declared to be imminent that means it could happen at any time there is nothing that yet has to be fulfilled before the rapture can occur that was true in

[44:19] Paul's day too so that makes it imminent for him imminent for every generation and God designed and built into the idea of imminency an expectancy for every generation and an impetus for godly responsible living for every generation because you know not at what hour your master may come and you don't want doing something embarrassing so you live in the light of the imminent return of Jesus Christ so that we will not be disappointed at his coming and that's part of the reason for imminency and I'm sure there are other reasons as well fascinating fascinating subject everybody has a fear of being a disembodied spirit don't you you don't want to give up this body you know that it's got its weaknesses and its limitations and everything but we'll do everything we can to hang on to it and that's partly because

[45:20] God has also built into us a desire for the preservation of life and that's part of our part of our being but now let me address this in just a moment that we have left when when I said the apostle Paul has been with the Lord for 2000 years as a disembodied spirit and I said yes and no here's what I meant I have no reason to believe that time even exists where he is or where our loved ones are who have gone on before or for that matter for those who have died and gone to be with the Lord for the last 2000 years I do not think they are with the Lord where time has any essence or being at all I believe when you step out of this body when your spirit leaves this body and goes to be with the

[46:27] Lord it enters eternity and there is no time there and there is no space there those disembodied spirits do not occupy time or space no one is getting to heaven in their spirit and saying hey you guys move over man it's getting crowded here we're running out of space no there is no space and there is no time well how in the world can we relate to a situation like that well we can't we just simply can't because we are locked in as physical creatures to this time space continuum it's all we've known and we just kind of automatically assume that that's all there is but listen let me put it this way this time and space thing and these physical bodies they're just a tiny percentage of the whole package there is so much more with the spiritual and the immaterial we're barely scratching the surface living in these physical bodies this is just kid stuff this is just elemental stuff this is first grade stuff it is this eternity this timelessness and spacelessness that is

[47:51] I was going to say otherworldly what else could it be it is otherworldly you know but we tend to think that this this this planet this body this life this is where it is this is what it is no it isn't no it isn't this is just scratching the scratch on the surface there is so much more that we cannot identify with and cannot appreciate in these bodies with these limitations things when when this time comes and step into eternity I have no idea what that's going to be like I have no idea how we're going to relate to other spirits but it will be on a level that we cannot engage in now at all and it will be an appreciation a knowledge and an understanding of the deity that we can't even begin to imagine with these limitations that we now have wow boy this is something

[48:55] I know and I'd be the first to admit it I'm in way over my head yeah is there a quick question or comment I can't imagine that there be any okay in the back there hand up I've wondered about this before and as you say there is no time and space once we leave this earth so if there's no time and space the 2000 years only applies to those of us who are still here on this earth so what about the thought that when you die since you're going to a place where there is no time and space could that time here on earth when you die actually be the same time as the rapture happening therefore there is no disembodied time because we all get there at the same time because there is no time yeah

[50:09] I think you're on to something I think you're on something there really and I know this is mind boggling as this is but you really are on something I I I'm a little reluctant to delve into the eternal time space thing where Abraham died and he's arriving in eternity at the same time as your loved one who died last week but here's the important thing to remember and I know this is very very difficult and it's very difficult for me and I've been thinking about for a long time the longer I think the more difficult it becomes but here it is dismiss from your mind the idea that eternity is years and years and years and years and long time no it isn't it isn't time at all it is just existence without time illustration is used if you sent a bird from here to the sun 93 million miles away and that bird had to go to the sun and circle around and come back how long would it take him years and years and years and when that bird has done that you just spent the first minute of eternity no you haven't there is no minute in eternity it is time less the psalmist says that it is the high and lofty one it is

[51:43] God who inhabits eternity and there is no time and there is no space it is an existence utterly unlike anything we know here in this and this stuff with these bodies is Mickey Mouse compared to what lies ahead that's going to really be something there's another we'll take it and then we'll have to dismiss anybody okay can we say there's no such thing as eternity past eternity now or eternity future yeah I think there's just eternity period yeah because when you say past and future you're talking about talking about time you see we are just so locked into it it's very difficult maybe even impossible for us to divorce ourselves from time and space because we are prisoners of it really we are held captive by time and space and when you die you are in a sense you are liberated from this body of humiliation and we go to be with the

[52:54] Lord and this brings us to the subject of and I'm just not going to go any further than to say this but this brings us to the subject of when then in actuality do we get this glorified body and in a timeless venue nobody is nobody is in heaven agonizing and saying oh I wish I had a body I wish I had my new body blah blah blah let me let me just say this and I'll close with this when you die and when you enter the presence of the Lord I am confident there are going to be a lot of surprises but there are not going to be any disappointments nobody's going to mope around with a long face and say is this it is this all you got I mean earth wasn't all that bad you know is this no no won't be any would you stand with me please father we know there is so much more about this subject than our finite minds can begin to understand but what we do understand excites us and energizes us to know more and to be more awestruck about the nature and being of yourself you are absolutely wonderful beyond words we just cannot begin to fathom the character and the quality of your being the nature of your being but we are just so grateful for all that you are and all that you have made us in

[54:45] Christ and father if there is anyone here who has never tasted of real freedom and real life and real liberty and real forgiveness we pray they may find no peace and no rest for their soul until they deposit themselves in the perfect and sweet will of God by acknowledging and receiving Jesus Christ as their Savior to this end we pray in Christ's name Amen